Early TOS themes and subjects you miss...

[JonnyQuest037]

VOY was ripe for the unknown, but I simply couldn't get into the show--I simply didn't like anything about it.

Yeah, I was much the same. VOY seemed to walk back most of its premises almost immediately. The two crews got along without much conflict, they met other established races in the Delta Quadrant, etc. The only characters I really liked were the Doctor and to a lesser degree, Tom Paris. Every other character I found to be largely dull or just a retread of a previous character. (I might've liked Seven of Nine, but I'd pretty much given up on the show by the time she came along.)

ENT was a show I might have given more of a chance if a number of things had been different. But by then Trek was in a formula I didn't much care for. For me ENT felt very much like VOY redressed.

Yes, agreed. Even to the point of the characters calling the ship just "Enterprise" instead of "the Enterprise" as they did on TOS. Lines like "We've got to get you back to Enterprise" just never sounded right to my ear. But I guess after seven years of calling the hero ship Voyager instead of "the Voyager", the writers just did that unconsciously.

here is one AndorIan in the background in the ep where Picard goes to Risa, and I think that's it.

There was one more Andorian cameo that I can think of: When Data created his daughter Lal, one of the forms she considered selecting was an Andorian.

Roddenberry didn't want "friendly" Star Trek races on TNG for some reason.

He wanted to get away from the previously-established races to do new stuff, for sure. A semi-regular Klingon character was Robert Justman's idea, and Roddenberry had to be talked into it. And from what I understand, Rick Berman asked the TNG makeup department to stay away from antennae on alien races, as he thought they looked goofy. I guess they convinced him that they could do it more credibly for Enterprise.

In TOS we are under the impression that Earth made it’s own way into deep space without a helping hand. Much of ENT felt like a rewriting of the subtext TOS gave us.

Yes, if I have one big objection to the more modern day Trek, that's it. I'd rather that they conformed to more of what TOS established, rather than rewriting it to suit their shows.

Whereas in TNG they went between galaxies, revived a bunch of 20th century humans and Picard wouldn't even bother to look up from reading some 'important' reports. There was no sense of wonder.

Great way to put it. The final frontier became a little too lived in and a little too business as usual. I did like the TNG crew's amazement at finding a Dyson Sphere in "Relics", though. I wish we had a little bit more of that.

A thing I miss from the early episodes of TOS is the sense of the wide variety of duties that the Enterprise had on its 5YM. They had to do things like check on remote colonies, give medical exams to archaeologists once a year, star charting, transporting medicines to outposts, exploring new space, and investigating signals that had only just reached Earth after several decades. All of that really gave you a sense of the sheer vastness of space. In a lot of subsequent Trek, space became like a walk around the local neighborhood. All of the running into old acquaintances didn't help that, either. ("Hey, Riker's just been offered a ship... And here's his long-lost father to tell him about it! What are the odds?!?")

 

[C57D]

Kirk's encounter with Balok's bubble ship and Picard's with Q's chain ship are broadly similar scenarios.
Kirk unsuccesfully tried to muscle his way out and then succesfully bluffed his way out.
Picard surrendered!
That, plus that Ent-D looks like a plump cruise liner while Ent- original is like a slim, swift clipper, tells you all you need to know about the aspects of TOS that TNG left far behind.

 

[Warped9]

TOS was meant to evoke something of the unseen western frontier as well as an 18th century naval ship patrolling unfamiliar seas. TNG was the contemporary aircraft carrier visiting mostly familiar ports of call and where a quick shuttlecraft or runabout ride will get you back home in short order just like nowhere on Earth today is really very far from anywhere else by jetliner.

 

[Grant]

Yeah you guys have really nailed it. That is exactly why I like the first two thirds of season one far more than any other time in Star Trek.
The loneliness of space.!
A completely automated deserted Mining facility in where no man has gone before, the ragtag miners in mudd's women the dead civilization in mantrap with only two people on the entire planet. The dead civilization of EXO 3 with Ruk still at the controls when Corby arrived. The deserted planet of the onlies in Miri. The Frozen observation post in the naked time. The habitable but apparently unpopulated planet where Kirk and the Gorn fought. The amusement park planet in Shore Leave where all the creators were dead. Khan's spaceship drifting for centuries without being discovered. The colonists on Omicron Ceti 3 where they hadn't even been contacted in all the years since they left to colonize the planet. Worst thing that ever happened to Star Trek was bringing in the Klingons as Cold War Style adversaries. It went from a show about exploration and the unknown to one that was obsessed with the parallel between the United States and the Soviet Bloc. I love the action I love the Klingons but it certainly didn't help Star Trek as a series.

 

[Warped9]

But note the Klingons and Romukans were used sparingly in TOS. And they never ran into the same Klingon or Romulan character more than once.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Kirk's encounter with Balok's bubble ship and Picard's with Q's chain ship are broadly similar scenarios.
Kirk unsuccesfully tried to muscle his way out and then succesfully bluffed his way out.
Picard surrendered!
That, plus that Ent-D looks like a plump cruise liner while Ent- original is like a slim, swift clipper, tells you all you need to know about the aspects of TOS that TNG left far behind.

Well, to be fair to TNG, I think that was more about trying to differentiate Picard from Kirk as much as possible. But yeah, it sets a bad precedent to have your new Captain surrender in the very first episode of the new series. Picard got tagged as a wimp very early on, and it took him a while to shake that.

But note the Klingons and Romukans were used sparingly in TOS. And they never ran into the same Klingon or Romulan character more than once.

Not for lack of trying, though! Supposedly both Koloth and Kang were created because John Colicos was unavailable to reprise Kor. You'll notice that each of those Klingon commanders was previously acquainted with Kirk.

 

[C57D]

Well, to be fair to TNG, I think that was more about trying to differentiate Picard from Kirk as much as possible. But yeah, it sets a bad precedent to have your new Captain surrender in the very first episode of the new series. Picard got tagged as
a wimp very early on, and it took him a while to shake that.

In full agreement, but with the addition that, for me, it wasn't so much that he surrendered, but more that he didn't even really try.
Not really who you want in command of a "strange new worlds" seeker!

 

[C57D]

Yeah you guys have really nailed it. That is exactly why I like the first two thirds of season one far more than any other time in Star Trek.
The loneliness of space.!
A completely automated deserted Mining facility in where no man has gone before, the ragtag miners in mudd's women the dead civilization in mantrap with only two people on the entire planet. The dead civilization of EXO 3 with Ruk still at the controls when Corby arrived. The deserted planet of the onlies in Miri. The Frozen observation post in the naked time. The habitable but apparently unpopulated planet where Kirk and the Gorn fought. The amusement park planet in Shore Leave where all the creators were dead. Khan's spaceship drifting for centuries without being discovered. The colonists on Omicron Ceti 3 where they hadn't even been contacted in all the years since they left to colonize the planet. Worst thing that ever happened to Star Trek was bringing in the Klingons as Cold War Style adversaries. It went from a show about exploration and the unknown to one that was obsessed with the parallel between the United States and the Soviet Bloc. I love the action I love the Klingons but it certainly didn't help Star Trek as a series.

You have captured in a paragraph exactly what, for me, makes TOS S1 the best ever. Some other great touches in S2&3, but not as many.
I hear what you are saying about the Romulans and, especially the Klingons, their prescence certainly took away a bit of mystery and the wonder of exploration.
I know budget would never have allowed it, nor would effects have been to carry it of, but I would have rather seen the Gorn as the ongoing enemy. An alien with a totally different psychology, physiology & society. Yes, okay the Gorn commander and Kirk seemed to have settled things, and the Metrons seemed to have put a stop to hostilities. But there is nothing to say that the Gorn PTB would agree with a truce and (presumably) negotiations? And the Metrons could just be concerned with keeping the kids out of their yard - not in enabling galactic peace.
Just a thought.

 

[Grant]

Yes season 2 started off strong as well following the themes of early season 1. The actually "Alien" aliens of catspaw the actual alien-ness of the companion, lonely Apollo on his uninhabited Planet waiting for the humans to come out in space, the Doomsday Machine wandering in from another galaxy, the red Jack entity that feeds off of fear. The Nomad probe returning to its creator.
But then interspersed between those the more and more frequent "aliens" in wigs and/or body paint as seen in apple and private little war.
And then when you get to the opening scenes of Journey to Babel where you just basically have the United Nations walking around the ship except instead of Russians and Indians and Africans and South Americans you have tellarites and andorians and Vulcans and little copper colored people. Arguing over territorial disputes and resources.
Don't get me wrong I love the Klingon and Romulan and alien Nations episodes but they don't hold a candle the episodes that deal with the unknown. And politics and Empires and war are not anyting like unknown to to us

 

[Harvey]

But then interspersed between those the more and more frequent "aliens" in wigs and/or body paint as seen in apple and private little war.

To be contrarian (hey, it's the internet!), the first season also had completely human-looking "aliens" in "Miri," "The Alternative Factor," "The Return of the Archons," and "A Taste of Armageddon." In those episodes, they didn't even bother with the wigs or the body paint.

 

[Grant]

I agree with you on those episodes but I did say the first two thirds of season 1. Taste of Armageddon Return of the archons and arguably alternative Factor were the last third off season 1.
And oddly enough Lazarus called himself human he didn't call himself another race which has always been confusing to me.
It's like when they ran out of ideas in they just fell back on the Wardrobe Department.
We have Nazi uniforms we have 1930s clothing we have gangster clothing, how about 20th century Rome? How about a parallel Earth circa 1966? How about Village dwelling asians versus Native American type Yankees?

And compare Charlie X where Charlie Evans is lost on a planet and the only people to raise him are non coporeal aliens. And he becomes so ingrained in their Society that he can't revert back to being human.
As to opposed to the Suddenly Human episode of The Next Generation where the lost human kid is raised by what else humanoids with funny noses and the big conflict is the fact that his adoptive dad might be abusing him. That's really super sci-fi-ee

 

[JonnyQuest037]

As to opposed to the Suddenly Human episode of The Next Generation where the lost human kid is raised by what else humanoids with funny noses and the big conflict is the fact that his adoptive dad might be abusing him. That's really super sci-fi-ee

But just to play Devil's Advocate, by that point in TNG, Michael Piller has firmly placed the emphasis of the series on character stories. He wasn't really about the big science fiction concepts. So I don't know if it's fair to criticize TNG for not doing what it wasn't really trying to do at that point.

I recall something that David Gerrold wrote in his book The World of Star Trek, that, at its best, Star Trek wasn't a science fiction series, but rather a dramatic series. The heart of most really great episodes of TOS wasn't "The Enterprise deals with this science fiction discovery" but rather "Kirk must make a decision." In "The City on the Edge of Forever", Kirk must decide between preserving history and saving the life of the woman he loves. In "Mirror, Mirror", Kirk must decide between escaping the savage parallel universe he finds himself in and trying to save the Halkans. And so on.

 

[Henoch]

Having the Enterprise never do a space battle would have been a waste. Thank you, Balance of Terror!

 

[Grant]

Yes but even balance of Terror highlighted the mysterious unknown qualities of space. The humans and the romulans had never even seen each other. They didn't know what they look like. Even Spock didn't seem to be a hundred percent sure that the romulans we're directly related to the Vulcans even after he saw what they looked like. And once again you have the lonely border outposts sitting there for a hundred years undisturbed guarding against an enemy that you've never even seen. Mysterious lonely isolated. And then not 20 episodes later you have what apparently are large battle fleets of Klingon and Federation forces about to wage an all-out Galactic War that's going to cost millions of lives just as if the Soviet forces had poured across the Iron Curtain. Totally different execution of space warfare between the two episodes.

 

[Qonundrum]

The ice cold but logical suggestion Spock makes in "Where No Man..." to kill Mitchell while they still can. Nobody even mentions solutions like that after the first few episodes.

Apart from the next closest thing, of Ro demanding Troi separate the saucer in "Disaster" while they still had time to save x number of crew instead of condemning all 1000+ of them.

And yet the Mitchell scenario is more tangible because we see him changing into an unknown (of which the story is feeding us morsels of "Rest assured, he's gonna be evil") whereas 1701-D was not going to be blown up in an early season 5 episode and not given TNG5's updated feel and format when compared to seasons 3 and 4.

 

[Warped9]

Re: the Romulans. It is entirely possible Earth forces did learn what Romulans looked like, but high command buried that knowledge to prevent any prejudice against the possibly newly encountered Vulcans. It is also entirely possible that Romulans knew what humans looked like from studying debris of destroyed and/or captured Earth ships. Earth high command could have listed those missing ships as destroyed rather than reveal there could be human hostages out there that could never be recovered. So the official story becomes neither side ever saw the other face-to-face )or at least over visual communications).

Just playing devil's advocate here.

 

[johnnybear]

^^ In TOS we are under the impression that Earth made it’s own way into deep space without a helping hand. Much of ENT felt like a rewriting of the subtext TOS gave us.

The Enterprise and Starfleet are it's own thing and the Vulcans are not in charge of anything in TOS! They are a valued member of the Federation and only appear in two episodes of the series (discounting The Savage Curtain) maybe because those ears were so damn expensive? The Romulans and the Vulcans never appear in the same season either maybe for that reason!
JB

 

[johnnybear]

Has anyone ever seen the similarities between Arena and Errand of Mercy? Not in the actual adventure but in characterisation! The Gorn becomes The Klingons and the Metrons are the Organians! The same writer, Gene Coon, repeating the basis of the previous episode rather than sticking Kirk with Kor on Organia to fight to the death he puts Spock in there too with a few hundred Klingons!
JB

 

[J.T.B.]

And then not 20 episodes later you have what apparently are large battle fleets of Klingon and Federation forces about to wage an all-out Galactic War that's going to cost millions of lives just as if the Soviet forces had poured across the Iron Curtain. Totally different execution of space warfare between the two episodes.

To be fair, the single cloaked ship on a raiding mission need not be representative of all OS space warfare. In movie terms, both The Enemy Below and Midway are appropriate to WW2, but the type of action is much different.

 

[Henoch]

To be fair, the single cloaked ship on a raiding mission need not be representative of all OS space warfare. In movie terms, both The Enemy Below and Midway are appropriate to WW2, but the type of action is much different.

TOS historic concept: Fleet Captain Garth may have orchestrated a space battle similar to the Battle of Midway where Starfleet learned of a large Klingon attack (with a side diversion) against a Federation planet or Earth Colony planet, then ambushed them using three starships destroying four enemy capital ships.