TNG fan watches TOS for first time

[JonnyQuest037]

Yes. When TMP hit theaters and we saw its many faults, there was a quiet rule among fans: "Don't say anything to hurt the movie." We wanted a sequel, and only box office would get us there.

Later with TNG, when it was often lousy those first two years, I stuck with every episode like a priest goes to church, not thinking I personally could affect the ratings, but more that this was a scarce thing called Star Trek, and I will stick with it to the bitter end.

Yeah. I remember that. It was this silent, unspoken rule.

There was a similar sort of thing with comic book movies or TV shows. I can remember a time where I felt obligated to watch EVERY attempt at adapting a comic book series into live action, even when it was obviously bad or based on books I didn't read, like the Generation X TV-movie. Now, there are enough different comic book movies out there that it's impossible to watch them all, and I can afford to pick and choose the ones I want to watch.

 

[Lord Garth]

30 years ago: I started with the TOS Movies, then TNG, and then TOS itself, which I instantly liked better than TNG.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

But, yeah, I never go through Season 1 after Picard shot himself. Ugh.

Uh... what? What episode am I forgetting?

 

[B’Elanna]

I’ll admit, I was a hypocrite for a long time. I used to espouse a dislike for TOS without ever having watched an episode. I was raised on TNG and it was the original for me. When I started watching discovery I decided it was high time to give TOS a chance. And I also must admit, I’ve enjoyed some of these episodes. I totally agree with the original post in this thread there are totally episodes where I expect the old Batman Bam and Whiff and evening for gogo dancing to break out on the bridge (especially in The Naked Time episode). But when I take for what it is and loosen up I find myself enjoying several episodes. I can’t wait for Trouble with Tribbles!!! And it has sparked a desire for me to read Nichelle Nichols’ biography! I LOVE Uhura!!!

 

[fireproof78]

Uh... what? What episode am I forgetting?

Sorry, that was a Season 2 episode "Time Squared."

 

[johnnybear]

I watched TNGs Evolution with my son last night and I could tell he was bored out of his head with it! I was even trying to explain to him that Data, the white faced guy was an Android and he said yes, he'd been able to work that out for himself!!! Plus I think he wanted to see Kirk and Spock instead because he kept asking if they or any of the original team were in this show as well!
JB

 

[Thomas Elliot]

Miri
I liked the premise but I saw a 20th century Earth back-lot stage and I kept it moving. I'll come finish the episode later.

The Corbomite Maneuver
Actually, I must have saw this one too. I remember as a kid seeing that elongated alien face in the end credits and it creeping me out. I later saw it while still a kid, and being slightly disappointed that it was just a mannequin. But I didn't remember much else from it.

Anyway, I watched the whole thing again. I loved the little details at first. Bailey messing up and getting into with Spock, Spock's verbal sparring. Good stuff. I even like small attention to detail like having Kirk NOT noticing the warning light while getting his check-up and then getting upset with McCoy for not telling him it was going off. A nice touch of realism, to me.

Balok telling them that they'll die in 8 minutes and there's nothing they can do was a bit intense. It was a slow build-up but effective. I could relate to Baily starting to crack. I also liked McCoy and Kirk's exchange earlier about Baily and how Kirk promoted him too soon because he saw himself in him. Character detail, I like it.

Spock tells them it's checkmate, to their dismay and destruction. But then Kirk says no...this isn't chess, this is poker. Ha ha! And then the made up Corbomite. I always wondered why Spock, who's like this extremely logical character become so attached and even an admirer to someone as human as Kirk. I get it now. Of course Kirk's the hero so he's going to come up with winning solution, but the whole way it played out was brilliant.
But half way through I looked at the time and expected the show to be over, but there was still another 25 minutes to go.

So they get to the ship and Balok is...a baby-man. Old school special effect but extremely effective. It was unsettling seeing a toddler Clint Howard speaking like a man and saying "Hello Gentleman, hahahahah, quick, drink, DRINK!"

Even though I know how this episode ends I was still yelling inside my head, don't drink it!!
This alien had you all thinking he was going to kill you all, and thinks it's totally normal to expect the people he was threatening to drink some strange beverage. Really? Kirk and them wait till he drinks first, but the first two glasses were already poured when they appeared.

And Baily, what are you thinking agreeing to stay and hang around with Balok?
I'm pretty sure Balok ended up killing Baily or selling him as slave labor to the Klingons, or something equally sinister because I looked it up and he's never reappears in the series.

I'd never drink Trania. Do we ever find out what it even is?

But an excellent episode!

The Devil in the Dark
I liked the mystery of some mysterious killer that leaves little trace of its victims.
Then the little sci-fi element of this killer being a silicon life-form! Impossible but maybe not.

Once the silver spheres got noticed by Spock I realized they were going to play a part.
Once I saw a bunch of them, ahh, I realized these are facehuggers.

The creature effect was awful. Some guy under a rug shambling about. All the parodies of this like Galaxy Quest that make fun of the effects are spot on. It was hard to take it seriously. Just have regular actors and give them some funny haircuts or some greasepaint and I'll buy them as aliens. Not this.

But then later on when they blasted a chunk off its back and you see some white exposed area and it even looked like it was pulsating...I no longer saw it as some guy under a rug.
"NO KILL I." Okay, how did it learn to speak english and secrete acid or whatever to perfectly write in english too? I started to feel bad when it was shambling about and this dumb rug effect had me feeling empathy for it when that fleshy part was exposed and it was dying.

Spock mind melding with it and getting all emotional acting..."Pain...the horror...murderers...the end of all time..." It was almost a little comical at first and I can see why people at the time might not have taken this show seriously. I wonder if it felt as cheesy now as it did back then?
But once all the pieces of the puzzle started to falling into place I got more into the story, and Spock's connection with it, the pain he was feeling through the creature.

And even Kirk questioned Spock's intentions, trying to keep him away from the creature at first. And ironically it was Spock who was telling Kirk, "You have no choice, kill it or you'll die." Spock definitely didn't want to lose Kirk. Almost like he was getting emotional. Kirk you fool, you'll be killed! And I'll be alone! You feel the bond right there.

The revelation and the solution was great, and really gives the viewer the message of what Star Trek is about. In this episode different cultures and species trying to help each other, not fight, and work together, overcome their differences, or misunderstandings or past transgressions.

Anyways, another outstanding episode, and I found the creature effects and the setting charming.

Miri
I came back to this one and some nuclear fall out victim attacks the crew and is crying about a tricycle. Possibly mentally handicapped. WTF? I'm already intrigued. But it's late and I've watched enough TOS for now.

 

[drt]

So far TOS feels more like an action-adventure series with a sci-fi backdrop. TNG feels so different in comparison. It's slower paced and seems like a sci-fi show made by people who produce edu-tainment.

That comment comment reminds me of an interview early in TNG's run, and I'm paraphrasing here, that described TOS as how we would want to explore space (emotionally) but that TNG is more like how it would probably be done (intellectually). It also occurs to be that both shows sort of reflect the contemporary reality of actual space exploration at the time they were filmed, more bold and pioneering in the 60s and more clinical and scientific in the 80s/90s.

"NO KILL I." Okay, how did it learn to speak english and secrete acid or whatever to perfectly write in english too?

It learned English from the mind meld, I think you're misremembering the order of events due to your late night viewing.

 

[scotpens]

. . . The Corbomite Maneuver
So they get to the ship and Balok is...a baby-man. Old school special effect but extremely effective. It was unsettling seeing a toddler Clint Howard speaking like a man and saying "Hello Gentleman, hahahahah, quick, drink, DRINK!"

Clint Howard was 7 years old at the time -- hardly a "toddler" (toddlers are 1- and 2-year-olds).

Funny thing is, Clint doesn't look much different as an adult. Except that now, he doesn't need the bald cap!

And Bailey, what are you thinking agreeing to stay and hang around with Balok?
I'm pretty sure Balok ended up killing Bailey or selling him as slave labor to the Klingons, or something equally sinister because I looked it up and he's never reappears in the series.

Most of the guest characters in Trek TOS appeared in a single episode and were never mentioned again. The exceptions were Harry Mudd ("Mudd's Women," "I, Mudd") and Lt. Kevin Riley ("The Naked Time," "Conscience of the King.") "

That was normal for 1960s series television. Guest characters were usually "one-shots." Episodes were stand-alone stories; shows didn't do story arcs that played out over several episodes or an entire season.

I'd never drink Trania. Do we ever find out what it even is?

IRL, I believe it was grapefruit juice.

 

[Thomas Elliot]

It learned English from the mind meld, I think you're misremembering the order of events due to your late night viewing.

I forgot to mention it in my post. As soon as I thought that while watching it, it's explained right away, in-story, that the creature learned English from the mind-meld.

IRL, I believe it was grapefruit juice.

Good to know. I was hoping Trania wasn't people.

But this show is getting better. Not that I ever disliked the show, but the first couple episodes that I started just recently were very so-so. But it's feeling more like the "Star Trek" that I remember.

About Space Seed. When Khan is doing some very Khan-like things, there's an ominous bass-line or something that plays in the background. Very eerie and almost modern-horror/suspense sounding. I think it's repeated in Khan's re-introduction in TWOK. I was so excited to hear the same ominous musical cue in "Space Seed." But apparently it's not Khan's theme music but something that's repeated often in TOS episodes.

I really like how TOS films expand on the original show and makes everything more realistic. We went from cheesy sets and rugs-as-aliens to big budget space epics on the big screen. I can't believe that the show was only for 3 seasons. Growing up I thought it was a big hit and had at least 5 or more seasons considering how iconic it was.

 

[scotpens]

. . . We went from cheesy sets and rugs-as-aliens to big budget space epics on the big screen. I can't believe that the show was only for 3 seasons. Growing up I thought it was a big hit and had at least 5 or more seasons considering how iconic it was.

Well, it was supposed to be a 5-year mission.

But a "rug"? I always thought the Horta looked like a tomato meatloaf!

 

[ZapBrannigan]

About Space Seed. When Khan is doing some very Khan-like things, there's an ominous bass-line or something that plays in the background. Very eerie and almost modern-horror/suspense sounding. I think it's repeated in Khan's re-introduction in TWOK. I was so excited to hear the same ominous musical cue in "Space Seed." But apparently it's not Khan's theme music but something that's repeated often in TOS episodes.

It's the second half of a track from Star Trek's library music called "Lonely to Dramatic," composed by Joseph Mullendore. The second half being where the "dramatic" part starts. And yeah, it was used in various episodes. In the 15-CD set, it's Disc 5, Track 11.

 

[johnnybear]

I watched the second episode of season three last night (my son declined) The Ensigns of Command was a much better episode than last week and yet was made first, so why not have shown that episode first as it might have kept my son's dwindling interest?
JB

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I watched the second episode of season three last night (my son declined) The Ensigns of Command was a much better episode than last week and yet was made first, so why not have shown that episode first as it might have kept my son's dwindling interest?
JB

Talk him into seeing "Yesterday's Enterprise" and "The Best of Both Worlds Part 1." If he's not a fan after that, he never will be.

 

[Vger23]

TNG debuted with the luxury of a pre-sold audience that allowed it to survive two lame seasons that would have gotten anyone else canceled. TNG didn't have their first truly great episode until the middle of the third season ("Yesterday's Enterprise"). TNG survived, while taking so long to find its space legs, because TOS fans carried it, out of loyalty to the idea of Star Trek. We knew it could get good eventually.

That's why it rankles a little to see TNG-only fans judging TOS. TNG stood on TOS's shoulders to get started, to survive a lot of poor early execution, and to finally to achieve its own greatness.

Totally agree. Honestly, nothing disinterests me more than a TNG-first fan looking down their nose at TOS. TNG was a good series. Not "great" by any stretch....but "good." I was a 12-year old when TNG first premiered, and even I, at that rather forgiving age, barely made it through the first two seasons without giving up on it. I found it dull, derivative, and antiseptic...with a dash of "afterschool special" sprinkled in. I really enjoyed the middle seasons (3-5) and almost dropped out again during the uninspired late seasons. It was a slog / felt like a chore to watch those last 2 seasons...which I mostly did out of a sense of obligation, and because there are a few REALLY good episodes sprinkled in there. I've tried re-watching it now (I have them on BR disk) and it's still a slog. I just can't get through it.

That said, overall, I find that the TOS-first fans are FAR more forgiving of the spin-off series that came later than the Berman-era fans are of TOS. It seems (in general) that TNG fans mostly view TOS as a quaint, goofy pre-cursor to TNG, while completely forgetting that TNG (and what followed) would have been off the air in 13 episodes if it wasn't for the fact that TOS was a cultural phenomenon and possibly the single greatest TV series ever produced.

 

[Commishsleer]

Totally agree. Honestly, nothing disinterests me more than a TNG-first fan looking down their nose at TOS. TNG was a good series. Not "great" by any stretch....but "good." I was a 12-year old when TNG first premiered, and even I, at that rather forgiving age, barely made it through the first two seasons without giving up on it. I found it dull, derivative, and antiseptic...with a dash of "afterschool special" sprinkled in. I really enjoyed the middle seasons (3-5) and almost dropped out again during the uninspired late seasons. It was a slog / felt like a chore to watch those last 2 seasons...which I mostly did out of a sense of obligation, and because there are a few REALLY good episodes sprinkled in there. I've tried re-watching it now (I have them on BR disk) and it's still a slog. I just can't get through it.

That said, overall, I find that the TOS-first fans are FAR more forgiving of the spin-off series that came later than the Berman-era fans are of TOS. It seems (in general) that TNG fans mostly view TOS as a quaint, goofy pre-cursor to TNG, while completely forgetting that TNG (and what followed) would have been off the air in 13 episodes if it wasn't for the fact that TOS was a cultural phenomenon and possibly the single greatest TV series ever produced.

I agree with this man.

 

[Thomas Elliot]

Totally agree. Honestly, nothing disinterests me more than a TNG-first fan looking down their nose at TOS.

TNG was a good series. Not "great" by any stretch....but "good." I was a 12-year old when TNG first premiered, and even I, at that rather forgiving age, barely made it through the first two seasons without giving up on it. I found it dull, derivative, and antiseptic...with a dash of "afterschool special" sprinkled in. I really enjoyed the middle seasons (3-5) and almost dropped out again during the uninspired late seasons. It was a slog / felt like a chore to watch those last 2 seasons...which I mostly did out of a sense of obligation, and because there are a few REALLY good episodes sprinkled in there. I've tried re-watching it now (I have them on BR disk) and it's still a slog. I just can't get through it.

That said, overall, I find that the TOS-first fans are FAR more forgiving of the spin-off series that came later than the Berman-era fans are of TOS. It seems (in general) that TNG fans mostly view TOS as a quaint, goofy pre-cursor to TNG, while completely forgetting that TNG (and what followed) would have been off the air in 13 episodes if it wasn't for the fact that TOS was a cultural phenomenon and possibly the single greatest TV series ever produced.

Yeah, that's definitely disinterest.

 

[Vger23]

Yeah, that's definitely disinterest.

Totally!!!

 

[fireproof78]

Totally!!!

Yup!

 

[Maurice]

I'd never call any Star Trek anything the best of its field (TV, movie, whatever). It can be very good, but best? Not in my book. Popular? Sure. It has a very engaged and vocal fanbase which makes it seem more important than it is, and a lot of critics and media types have taken to aping its mythology. That popularity kept its syndication ratings high so the show stuck around whereas a lot of other fine shows didn't pull the same audiences. And syndication leaned increasingly towards half hours shows. As a result, many truly great shows never got widely syndicated and are largely forgotten. And as B&W shows fell out of favor for syndication a lot of other shows just didn't get audiences despite their merits.