TNG fan watches TOS for first time

[Thomas Elliot]

Not the very first time, but I'd only seen maybe a handful of full episodes as a kid. Prior to TNG.
-Tribbles
-A random Klingon episode
-the episode with the big headed alien guy who was also in the end credits.

So I've just started watching TOS again, picking random episodes to watch in-full. I don't want to necro bump old threads or start a new one for each episode so I think I'll just put my thoughts on them here:

-"Mirror, Mirror"
Actually, I saw this a year or two ago. It was great. I loved the premise, and it was a little creepy, the possibility of being trapped in an evil universe.

"Assignment: Earth"
Felt like an episode of the 60s Batman show. I almost expected "BIFF! POW! WHAM!" Awful.

-"City on the Edge of Forever"
So disappointing after reading all the hype. Not a bad episode, but not that great. The premise is good, the execution was very average.

-"Space Seed"
Now this is more like it. The prequel to The Wrath of Khan! Certainly a small story compared to TWOK. But the world building of the "Eugenics Wars" was a nice touch, giving us some future history. I liked the chance to go to another space ship and see people in cryo-sleep.
And Ricardo Montalban as Khan was great casting. Guy's performance was great. He never went overboard and peak was his verbal sparring with Spock and Kirk over dinner. McGivers was a cutie.

It was weird to see Kirk and the rest of the crew, sans Spock, romanticizing Khan as an anti-hero. Like the sci-fi version of teenagers worshipping criminals and gangsters. Spock was the only one who had any sense. And even after Khan was guilty of attempted murder, Kirk just gave him his own planet to chill on with his people. What happens if a starship lands and they commandeer that one successfully and conquer the galaxy? Oh well. At least it gave us a great follow up in movie form. But Kirk and McGivers' dictator crush was a bit ridiculous for Starfleet officers.

And how does Kirk go toe-to-toe with Superman? :smh:

But a great episode, and I liked how they showed Khan's gradual manipulation of McGivers and also showed that it wasn't just women who were under his spell. Even McCoy was catching feelings.

As a TNG fan I always considered it a natural progression from TOS. Yeah it looked drastically different but it's like 20 years in-between. But now that I've bene watching the episodes back to back, I can definitely see why people had a hard time embracing TNG when it first came out.
So far TOS feels more like an action-adventure series with a sci-fi backdrop. TNG feels so different in comparison. It's slower paced and seems like a sci-fi show made by people who produce edu-tainment.

 

[johnnybear]

I remember not being the greatest fan of TNG when it first came out but rapidly loving it during the third season, especially with the Borg and their attempts to conquer the Alpha Quadrant and earth itself! But after a few years I came back to the original series and that is the one I grew up with and have loved since childhood!
JB

 

[Gordie]

Like you I only watched a handful of episodes as a kid. A few years ago, I tried to watch TOS but I just couldn't get into it. I don't like it.

 

[Phaser Two]

And how does Kirk go toe-to-toe with Superman?

Because he's James T. Frigging Kirk, that's how! And not Superman exactly, but someone with five times his strength. Given the level of Kirk's fighting skills, it wasn't impossible for him to get in a few good blows, as he did.

I'm one of the few here, I believe, who will agree with you to an extent about City. It's really overrated. I cringe when I see it listed as the best Star Trek episode ever, because it's really only around #10 to #12 for me. It's a very, very good episode, but no masterpiece, and its flaws really grate.

Good writeup of SS, by the way.

 

[Herbert]

Because he's James T. Frigging Kirk, that's how! And not Superman exactly, but someone with five times his strength. Given the level of Kirk's fighting skills, it wasn't impossible for him to get in a few good blows, as he did.

Kirk was just damn lucky that Scotty installed all those belaying pins into the control console seemingly right before Khan showed up. Funny how they're gone after that episode.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Kirk was just damn lucky that Scotty installed all those belaying pins into the control console seemingly right before Khan showed up. Funny how they're gone after that episode.

A good engineer always anticipates his Captain's needs.

 

[Herbert]

A good engineer always anticipates his Captain's needs.

Scotty is the miracle worker after all

 

[Nyotarules]

I find TOS easier to rewatch then TNG.

 

[scotpens]

"Assignment: Earth"
Felt like an episode of the 60s Batman show. I almost expected "BIFF! POW! WHAM!" Awful.

To be fair, "Assignment: Earth" was originally a pilot script for a new and quite different series that was shoehorned into the Star Trek format, and it was an awkward fit at best. Never heard it compared to Batman before, though!

 

[Commishsleer]

Like you I only watched a handful of episodes as a kid. A few years ago, I tried to watch TOS but I just couldn't get into it. I don't like it.

Same with me and TNG!
OK just joking - TNGs alright. Just very bland in comparison.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

TNG debuted with the luxury of a pre-sold audience that allowed it to survive two lame seasons that would have gotten anyone else canceled. TNG didn't have their first truly great episode until the middle of the third season ("Yesterday's Enterprise"). TNG survived, while taking so long to find its space legs, because TOS fans carried it, out of loyalty to the idea of Star Trek. We knew it could get good eventually.

That's why it rankles a little to see TNG-only fans judging TOS. TNG stood on TOS's shoulders to get started, to survive a lot of poor early execution, and to finally to achieve its own greatness.

 

[Gordie]

TNG debuted with the luxury of a pre-sold audience that allowed it to survive two lame seasons that would have gotten anyone else canceled. TNG didn't have their first truly great episode until the middle of the third season ("Yesterday's Enterprise"). TNG survived, while taking so long to find its space legs, because TOS fans carried it, out of loyalty to the idea of Star Trek. We knew it could get good eventually.

That's why it rankles a little to see TNG-only fans judging TOS. TNG stood on TOS's shoulders to get started, to survive a lot of poor early execution, and to finally to achieve its own greatness.

TNG was rough early on. Worf growling at people. And the final episode of season 2 was horrible and didn't make any sense to close out the season with that episode.

 

[Maurice]

TNG was rough early on. Worf growling at people. And the final episode of season 2 was horrible and didn't make any sense to close out the season with that episode.

Writer's strike delayed the season. They were over budget by the end. They were up against the wall.

 

[ChallengerHK]

First, I'm always interested in how TNG people react to TOS.

For what ti's worth, when Berman-Trek people talk to me about the differences, I tell them that one of the biggest differences I see is that TOS was hitting on all cylinders from the word "go", with great stories and great characters. By contrast, TNG had a handful of great stories scattered through the first couple of seasons, and it wasn't until Season 3 that it became something that I regularly enjoyed watching.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

By contrast, TNG had a handful of great stories scattered through the first couple of seasons, and it wasn't until Season 3 that it became something that I regularly enjoyed watching.

Yeah. I'd never give a show that much leeway these days. There are just too many other entertainment options out there. Either hit the ground running or stop wasting my time.

 

[ChallengerHK]

Yeah. I'd never give a show that much leeway these days. There are just too many other entertainment options out there. Either hit the ground running or stop wasting my time.

A lot of folks do think that way. That's the reason why new shows tend to only last through a single digit count of episodes. For me, If I find the premise interesting and it looks like there's talent behind the camera I'll give a new show at least half a season,

As for TNG...for me it's kind of the same thing as The Motion Picture. I was a fan in the 60s, so when we got TMP, even though it wasn't very good, I was happy to at least see the characters in action again. When TNG came along, I was happy to see more Trek, even when it was iffy.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

As for TNG...for me it's kind of the same thing as The Motion Picture. I was a fan in the 60s, so when we got TMP, even though it wasn't very good, I was happy to at least see the characters in action again. When TNG came along, I was happy to see more Trek, even when it was iffy.

Yes. When TMP hit theaters and we saw its many faults, there was a quiet rule among fans: "Don't say anything to hurt the movie." We wanted a sequel, and only box office would get us there.

Later with TNG, when it was often lousy those first two years, I stuck with every episode like a priest goes to church, not thinking I personally could affect the ratings, but more that this was a scarce thing called Star Trek, and I will stick with it to the bitter end.

 

[Thomas Elliot]

TNG debuted with the luxury of a pre-sold audience that allowed it to survive two lame seasons that would have gotten anyone else canceled. TNG didn't have their first truly great episode until the middle of the third season ("Yesterday's Enterprise"). TNG survived, while taking so long to find its space legs, because TOS fans carried it, out of loyalty to the idea of Star Trek. We knew it could get good eventually.

That's why it rankles a little to see TNG-only fans judging TOS. TNG stood on TOS's shoulders to get started, to survive a lot of poor early execution, and to finally to achieve its own greatness.

That's interesting because in hindsight, I don't think the first two seasons are lame at all. Now, I initially looked down on TNG because it got Star Trek "wrong." The captain is supposed to be cool and heroic-looking, dashing, not some old, bald man.
In fact, I vividly remember watching "The Royale" for the first time. Sure, my young self would have preferred a kick-but action adventure starring a David Hasselhoff/Sly Stallone/John McClane-type, but in spite of myself, I was intrigued by the story. There was no other show on TV at the time that took place in the future and offered a chance to meet all these new aliens, civilizations and weird cosmic mysteries. I suppose having "Star Trek" in its name gave it some sense of familiarity and reputation, but then again, channels and show variety was limited, so anything that wasn't the news or serious dramas for grown-ups was getting watched by me.

I remember seeing "Q Who" for the first time and that episode seriously creeped me out, and I think is the example of a great episode.

Yes. When TMP hit theaters and we saw its many faults, there was a quiet rule among fans: "Don't say anything to hurt the movie." We wanted a sequel, and only box office would get us there.

I understand that line of thinking these days, since everyone's opinion is broadcast through the internet, but if fans were critical back then, how would that have gotten back to the studio in any substantial way? Was TMP considered so bad to Trek fans at the time that it weren't for the potential risk of not getting a sequel, would they have started a letter-writing campaign to say how bad it was?

I saw The Motion Picture for the first time a few years back and I was impressed with how good it was. Me personally, I would have thought it was a great representation of what Star Trek is about. In fact, it's probably my favorite Star Trek movie.

Later with TNG, when it was often lousy those first two years, I stuck with every episode like a priest goes to church, not thinking I personally could affect the ratings, but more that this was a scarce thing called Star Trek, and I will stick with it to the bitter end.

I'm looking forward to finishing up TOS and then going back and re-watching the first season of TNG. I think it'll put me in the mind frame of the average fan back then and also give me some some better context in how it was perceived. As I've said, watching TOS has already kind of altered my perception of TNG. It's very weird to now get comfortable with the three musketeers of the lively Kirk, Spock and McCoy, and then go to a crew where there are no best friends, no specific character/s focus, and everyone is very enlightened-sounding but stiff.

 

[Phaser Two]

Yeah. I'd never give a show that much leeway these days. There are just too many other entertainment options out there. Either hit the ground running or stop wasting my time.

Shoot, I didn't do that (give it a chance) with TNG even with many, many fewer entertainment options! I couldn't believe what a mess the first season was and stopped watching it. After that, I was away at school and it wasn't always on at predictable times, so I only caught it sporadically, but did definitely perceive that it had improved. S7 was the only one I watched "live." To this day I don't believe I've seen every ep; I'm mostly missing a few in S1 and S2 I believe.

 

[fireproof78]

So far TOS feels more like an action-adventure series with a sci-fi backdrop.

Because that is what it was. That's what it was pitched as to the studio.

TNG didn't have their first truly great episode until the middle of the third season ("Yesterday's Enterprise"). TNG survived, while taking so long to find its space legs, because TOS fans carried it, out of loyalty to the idea of Star Trek. We knew it could get good eventually.

I'm still trying with TNG but I agree on the third season thing. I am more than willing for a show to take its time and build itself up. But, TNG never grew on me.

Unfortunately, few shows are given that time and many shows I did like when by the wayside while things like VOY and ENT continued on.

Shoot, I didn't do that (give it a chance) with TNG even with many, many fewer entertainment options! I couldn't believe what a mess the first season was and stopped watching it. After that, I was away at school and it wasn't always on at predictable times, so I only caught it sporadically, but did definitely perceive that it had improved. S7 was the only one I watched "live." To this day I don't believe I've seen every ep; I'm mostly missing a few in S1 and S2 I believe.

I didn't start off on TNG and only saw bits and pieces. "All Good Things" is a fun episode, and "Pegasus" remains my favorite of the TNG I have seen.

But, yeah, I never go through Season 1 after Picard shot himself. Ugh.