Kira Was Never Ever In Love with Odo

[HugeLobes]

There wasn’t must chemistry between them, and I never really understood why Kira would have those feelings for Odo. As progressive as DS9 was in some ways, it still seemed to think every female character eventually needed a serious love interest.

I don’t think it’s terrible, or even the worst DS9 ‘romance’, but I think the relationship would have worked much better based on unrequited love.

 

[ThreeEdgedSword]

Edit: And by the way Kira/Visitor is how a TRULY empowered female acts on Trek....as opposed to the weepfest of DISCO and the quivering lip of PICARD.*

*I like how its done but man they are dancing on a razors edge.

I would agree that she was/ is the most fully developed female ST character. Still...

As progressive as DS9 was in some ways, it still seemed to think every female character eventually needed a serious love interest.

... I also agree with this statement.
Of course, DS9 generally had more long-running romantic relationships than any of the other shows: Sisko/ Yates, Kira/ Boringeil, Shakaar, Odo; Jadzia/ Worf, Miles/ Keiko and IIRC, they just had to pair off Julian and Ezri at the last minute...

 

[kkt]

Yes, DS9 tried to set it up so that every adult character got a love interest, at least eventually (Julian).

 

[Tosk]

As progressive as DS9 was in some ways, it still seemed to think every female character eventually needed a serious love interest.

Why can't a progressive show have characters having serious love interests?

 

[HugeLobes]

Why can't a progressive show have characters having serious love interests?

It can. It's just that every female character seemed to need one.

 

[Tosk]

It can. It's just that every female character seemed to need one.

I'm still not sure what point you're making. What does it matter if each main female character (of which there was only three) had a "serious" love interest at one stage or another? The same can be said for Ben, Odo, Miles, Worf, Bashir, and arguably even Quark.

 

[HugeLobes]

I'm still not sure what point you're making. What does it matter if each main female character (of which there was only three) had a "serious" love interest at one stage or another? The same can be said for Ben, Odo, Miles, Worf, Bashir, and arguably even Quark.

My point is that it seems more important for female characters. That’s a tough argument for Quark, and for Sisko it was a more important part of his character development given where he started. Every female character seemed to need a mate in a way the male characters didn’t seem to need so urgently. Yes, male characters do get love interests, but that’s almost only when female characters become available for them.

In fairness, VOY and TNG were worse for this. I don’t think it’s some terrible blot on the franchise or anything.

 

[Tosk]

need

Why is it need and not just what happens?

urgently

Jadzia didn't get a love interest that lasted more than one episode until season five. Ezri (arguably) not until the final episode.

Yes, male characters do get love interests, but that’s almost only when female characters become available for them.

This seems like an arbitrary distinction to me. How does writers giving characters love interests become "urgent" for females" and "when available" for males?

That’s a tough argument for Quark

Depends on your view of serious I guess. If they have to be in more than one episode, then Grilka is his only one. But that's still one more ep that Ezri and Bashir had together.

 

[Roboturner913]

It can. It's just that every female character seemed to need one.

So did the men. Even Rom and Morn got laid on DS9.

 

[Farscape One]

Strictly speaking, Bashir and Ezri were together for the entire series finale, which was a double episode.

So they finally get together in "THE DOGS OF WAR" and are all in for 2 morr episodes.

But, yeah... Quark and Grilka only had the two episodes. The thing with Quark is it was difficult to write him a relationship. His Ferengi values made it difficult, as he was a traditionalist for the most part. It wouldn't have worked with Natima any better than Grilka... likely far worse.

Pel could have worked, but not at the time it happened. Post finale perhaps.

 

[HugeLobes]

This seems like an arbitrary distinction to me. How does writers giving characters love interests become "urgent" for females" and "when available" for males?

Ezri didn't officially get together with Bashir until late on, but that was her only season! The difference is that romance seemed like an essential part of Ezri's character development throughout, whereas that wasn't such an issue with Bashir. Every female character ended up with a significant love interest. That's not the case with the male characters.

Again, it's not as prominent an issue on DS9 as it is in TNG and VOY. Since we're clearly not going to agree, I'll just say I wish Kira and Odo had stayed platonic.

 

[mlbach]

Most series didn’t do relationships well and ST was no exception. I watched a Gunsmoke episode that had Vera Miles as a guest star and she got together with Doc and I remember thinking, Oh, well, she’s gonna die. And she did. Of the bubonic plague.
(For the record, Morn got laid ALL THE TIME. Just like he’d talk everybody’s ear off. Offscreen.)
I think it had to do with the unwritten rule that they had to keep the main cast members unencumbered in case they wanted them to have a one off with a guest star.

 

[Farscape One]

I would argue that DS9 did long-term romance relationships the best, at least within STAR TREK.

The O'Briens' marriage felt real and well characterized, even before I got married and got to understand it even better.

Ben and Kasidy was pretty solid, too.

Worf and Jadzia... I thought it was well done, though I can see why some might call it a bad pairing. Of all of them, I think this one might be morr a matter of taste.

 

[HugeLobes]

Most series didn’t do relationships well and ST was no exception.

Strongly agree, except the relationship between Bashir and O'Brien. You can write characters together and try and talk up how they 'make sense', but you can't write chemistry. My favourite example is April and Andy in Parks and Rec. They just had a random scene where they showed chemistry and so the writers developed it into a relationship that felt more authentic than any other of the show's couplings. That's the main thing missing from Odo and Kira. They just didn't have much spark.

 

[HugeLobes]

Worf and Jadzia... I thought it was well done, though I can see why some might call it a bad pairing. Of all of them, I think this one might be morr a matter of taste.

Worf and Jadzia is such a stupid pairing, but that sort of made it work. Storylines got very OTT and the acting became very sitcom like with the two of them, but it was a great way to lighten the tone. The writers and actors seemed to get that. And even though it was a silly pairing, there was actually some spark between them. Not to beat around the bush, they're the one couple (apart from Quark and Grilka...) who actually had some passion. Terry Farrell in particular did a great job making the whole thing work.

 

[mlbach]

Kira and Odo had plenty of spark! I saw it early on. So did the writers, which is why they started writing “Odo loves Kira” scenes. It obviously didn’t work for you, and that’s fine. Different strokes and all that.
I also saw huge sparks in Garak and Bashir interactions. Lots of folks didn’t. That’s OK too. (Although Andy Robinson said in the documentary that Garak was interested in Bashir for sex.)

 

[HugeLobes]

Kira and Odo had plenty of spark! I saw it early on. So did the writers, which is why they started writing “Odo loves Kira” scenes. It obviously didn’t work for you, and that’s fine. Different strokes and all that.
I also saw huge sparks in Garak and Bashir interactions. Lots of folks didn’t. That’s OK too. (Although Andy Robinson said in the documentary that Garak was interested in Bashir for sex.)

I definitely think there was spark on Odo’s side, but not on hers. Once they get together the way they talked just seemed more like friends, so maybe passion is a better word than spark? Again though, I think only Jadzia and Worf had any sense of passion.

I’m positive the thing with Garak and Bashir would have been delved into a little more if the show had been made today. Apparently they’re the biggest fanfic shipping couple.

 

[ThreeEdgedSword]

Strongly agree, except the relationship between Bashir and O'Brien.

Oh, I think they did non-romantic relationships very well. (Unless you ship those two, which is fine): Julian/ O'Brien, Ben/ Jake, Kira/ Odo friendship... Romances, not so much. Ben/ Yates I liked. "Rejoined" has its problems, of course, but it worked for me, too. My memory of Jadzia/ Worf is sketchy, I'll have to wait until I get there on my rewatch, which has somehat skidded to a halt.

Yup, I could totally see Bashir/ Garak, but alas...

 

[at Quark's]

Kira doesn't strike me as the type who could or would feign a love interest she didn't really feel. On the other hand, she did seem to have some draw towards men into positions of power (Bareil, Shakaar) and probably didn't maintain a strict principle of separating her personal and working life (she accedes to certain requests from Shakaar during a romantic dinner) - which is not to say she was unprincipled in that regard though (also Bajoran culture may be slightly different).

So I think her love for Odo was genuine, but she always accepted that there would be areas of Odo's life she could never share - the Great Link for example, hence accepting his profound 'otherness'. Which is also why she could let him go at the end, I think.