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Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x09 - "Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 1"

Rate Star Trek: Picard 1x09 - "Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 1"


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I thought this was slightly below average. I thought it was not bad right up till near the end. I loved seeing Brent Spiner.

I didn't like a Synth being able to mind meld. I can get used to it I guess but I am not a big fan of that.

I didn't really like the turn into bad guys either. Kurtzman loves this shit. Subvert your expectations. Sometimes it works and sometimes it does not. Since this is part one of two I guess its hard to judge yet. I need to see part 2 first.
 
I also get perplexed at the arguments that PIC is "too slow," because you can just flip forums and you'll read that DSC is "too fast."

Holy Canon is more than just the story, it's also a series of Commandments. One of them is...

Thou shalt assume the opposite credence of thy enemy's television series.
Lest thou be cast to perdition and eternal damnation.
So commands The Great Bird of the Galaxy who demands eternal, vigilant worship.

Richard 23:64
The Holy Canon of Latter-Day Purists.
 
I'm sorry, but the presence of other Romulan states is interesting texture, but it's not important info to the story being told. Not at all.

So, if the loss of Romulus had not only destabilized the Empire but fragmented it into multiple states, with multiple degrees of resources and different agendas, it wouldn't be important to elaborate on that? Because it would seem like a good focal point to me, both as an important reaction to the crisis as well as one reason the Federation might have chosen to abandon the rescue operation. Because in this context, they're dealing with political chaos on top of every logistical strain as well. I'm not saying it's a level of detail that's essential to the series, just one avenue that could be explored. And I think some fans would be right to criticize it being glossed over.

And I don't think she's evil. Look at things from her perspective: The first time they tried to make contact with organics, her twin sister was brutally murdered by a Starfleet captain. The next time she comes into contact with organics, they show up, tell her that her father (Maddox) is dead and one of her other sisters is murdered; there's a fleet of organics coming to exterminate them all; and the one guy who's promising to try to protect them, is the dude the Federation government pissed all over when they betrayed the Romulans.

From Sutra's perspective, it's not unreasonable to think of all organics as basically violent creatures or as potential threats, and it's understandable that she might be so messed up from the violence inflicted upon her family as to develop a "screw them all" attitude. That doesn't make her good or acceptable, but I don't think she's intrinsically evil. She's someone who is terrified -- and terrified people often make horrible decisions they later regret.

I'm not yet convinced that Sutra is evil in the same sense Lore was, myself; I think we need a bit more context in the last episode. That being said, though, I think her extremism and apparent "cornered" perspective isn't really developed properly to seem plausible either. If Sutra is genuinely a student of Vulcan history and philosophies, and might have reason to respect a pacifist like Surak, then she must accept the logic that extremism is often (though not always) a faulty perspective even when it has some measure of justification.

If Rios provides the disturbing context behind the actions of his captain, that he was basically blackmailed into the murders by Oh (who would have destroyed the whole ship otherwise) and that he felt so guilty he killed himself afterward (in front of Rios, no less), then it's clearly not a case of organics just killing for no reason. There's little doubt that Vandermeer committed a serious crime, but not one he wanted to do. He was left, in a sense, cornered.

And if the android community is well aware of Data's history and his relationships with friends like Picard and the Enterprise crew, then logically they should be able to see the benefits inherent when different groups and races actually cooperate. When an android like Data is accepted and treated appropriately by the majority of his fellow officers, if not always consistently (as shown by early Maddox and his XO on the Sutherlander). No matter how many flaws the Federation might possess as a political entity, or even powers like the Klingons and Romulans, it would seem they have a context to understand that it's not solely an "us vs them" situation.

But given that Sutra has apparently never traveled away from home (it was said in dialogue that aside from the orchids, only the ship with BF and his companion was ever launched), and given that she's lived peaceably with Soong (who is presumably not an android who happens to be advanced enough :rommie:) as the only familiar human, I'd have trouble buying that she or any of the other androids would be swayed to that perspective too easily. They just don't seem to have enough experience with actual organics, unless the other half of the story says differently.
 
No, but those who think that way are annoyingly nitpicking everything to death. I have been on this bbs a long time but just recently started putting some posters on ignore (works great!!).

And for the record I really like Discovery and think Picard is fantastic. As for Star Wars, yeah it has been terrible since the prequel movies.
I agree with everything you said in this post, Star Trek-wise. But I actually like the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy.
 
Why? Because it kills the mysticism angle? Because it reduces the procedure to the mere manipulation of electrical signals?

All the better, I'd say. But that's just me.
I remember reading that it wasn't just telepathy but also being able to access pressure points to read the mind in combination with the Vulcan mental discipline. However, it always struck me as a weird mix between mysticism and biology.
 
We all seem to want a deeper look into the destabilized Romulan states. If PIC follows the storytelling style of DSC, this whole synth arc will be resolved by the end of the finale and season 2 will have it's own arc. Maybe that arc will be that deeper look into the destabilized Romulan states? If that's the case, maybe Elnor & Picard's Tal Shiar housekeepers will have a bigger role. If the show follows through with its implication that Jurati will die, go to jail, or be left behind, they will be looking to add a regular cast member or two.

I was thinking about how the admonition states that organics become afraid when they realize their synthetic creations do not age, get sick, or die and try to destroy them. But if Soji and her sister are evolved to a level where they are fully organic beings with mucus no less, wouldn't that mean they are mortal as well and indistinguishable from regular organic beings?

Why was Alton Soong having trouble with mind transference into his creations? Ira Graves figured it out 35 years ago in universe! (The Schizoid Man)
 
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Why was Alton Soong having trouble with mind transference into his creations? Ira Graves figured it out 35 years ago in universe! (The Schizoid Man)

So did his father (Noonian) who transferred his wife into an android.

jr is just not as smart as those. But I think Jurati will figure it out and transfer him. I don’t know why so many people think Picard will transfer to an android. The Golem was obviously created for Soong.
 
Sutra seems as evil as Khan

Even moreso, really! Khan may have been a former tyrant but when he spoke of "great dreams" and "great aspirations" during the Eugenics Wars of the 1990s he did it in a heartfelt and sincere way where you could tell he genuinely believed what he was saying. There was passion and humanity in those words even if he was not exactly a good example of humanity. Sutra just comes across as sinister and creepy and bereft of what Soong or Maddox would likely have wanted her to show to others.
 
I thought the body Soong Jr was working on was to bring Maddox back to life somehow. Now that I think about it, that doesn't make sense, but that's what I thought Soong Jr meant by Jurati repaying her debt.
The gold makeup for the androids was criticized by someone else, but I think it kind of worked.

Usually we associate gold with richness, wealth, something precious and valuable. That fits what the story is trying to get across about the synths. They're unique, marvels to science and technology, they have the ability to use their positronic whatevers for stem cell research to cure dying children, etc.
And also, maybe it's a reference to the bodypaint used in TOS. Just a nice little bit of nostalgia referencing while also maintaining some visual continuity from TOS all the way to PIC.
 
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So did his father (Noonian) who transferred his wife into an android.

jr is just not as smart as those. But I think Jurati will figure it out and transfer him. I don’t know why so many people think Picard will transfer to an android. The Golem was obviously created for Soong.
I don't get why so many folks think Jean-Luc would even agree to it.
He's not the type in any fashion to desire to live beyond his allotted time in the Universe.

The only way it could happen is if somebody else takes it upon themselves to do it without Picard's permission and I don't think Raffi would let that happen.
(even though she would really desire it)
I don't think Seven would let it happen either. She very much understands what it is like to have ones "free choice" taken away.
 
.... a beautiful episode, Orchids bringing down spaceships...!
Mad Scientist's and Psyco killers joining forces.. Spot II. A "Thing-Fixer"... (?)... crazy Soji-clones...

PUTA MADRE it's a 10!
 
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I’ve had to sleep on this episode before I ranked it. I’m probably one of the bigger “new trek” fans on here, but even I have to admit they have really missed the mark. This is not how I thought everything would end up.

The episode itself, besides being a bit disjointed, was fine. The SFX were stunning! Best I’ve seen in Trek since S2 Discovery finale. Yet the storyline is ridiculous. We’re basically retelling the Control story from Discovery. Sentient human created AI that turns rogue and tries to destroy all life cause “organic life is bad”.

I was hoping the Borg storyline would somehow be connected as well.

Then again I could be totally wrong and there are still big twists to come in Ep2!

My prediction would be the ExB’s will come and save the day. They are all now Rangers being led by Seven. Be an ironic twist on the Borg- going from the most feared Trek Villain of all time, to being the saviour of humanity against rogue artificial life. I don’t think we will get an actual resolution this season of the storyline and it will continue in S2. Picard will almost die and Jurati will save him by transferring his mind to the artificial body. Something will go wrong and we will have to wait until season 2 to see if it works. I don’t see Soji and Jurati actually turning their backs on JL and they will try and save him from within.
 
I like that idea. I mean, it's not a huge hardship, but it is a pain to have to scroll through umpteen pages of speculation and predictions just to find the actual comments on the episode.

(Granted, we only have one more week to deal with this. Maybe something to think about for Season 2.)
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/know-ye-these-the-hallowed-rules-of-trek-bbs.302063/#post-13317730

It borders on mansplaining.
I'd consider this to be an inappropriate use of the term, as there were no gender issues involved...
There's nothing as annoying as someone appropriating the rhetoric of social justice
...and wanted to like where this rebuttal was going...
in retaliation for someone else pointing out they're full of shit.
...and then you had to go and do that, which is definitely crossing the line into attacking the poster. Don't do it again.
 
I have to say I'm a little bit disappointed by the different planets in PIC. They did a bang-up job in depicting future Earth.

But the Romulan refugee planet, Freecloud, Riker & Troi's planet, and now the Android Hippie planet - they all feel like very standard "planet-of-the-weeks" from late 80s TNG.

Especially compared with other modern SF planets like on "The Mandalorian", nu"Lost in Space" or even "The Expanse" or "The Orville".
 
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