Was Kirk justified in killing Kruge?

[Spock's Eyebrow]

I find it unKirk-like that he would murder Kruge in such a callous manner. I always thought Kirk would look for even the slightest spark of possible redemption in his enemies and act accordingly.

Kruge was pathetic and helpless at this point.

Anyone else disappointed that Kirk gave in to anger instead of being more reasonable as we are accustomed to?

 

[Kirk Prime]

It was an absolutely justifiable homicide. I don't think he did give into anger at all. Kruge was trying to kill him. Kruge murdered his son. Yet when Kruge was helpless and hanging for his life, Kirk reached out his hand to try to save him. But Kruge STILL tried to kill Kirk even in that state. At that point, Kirk kicked him off in self defense. Kruge had no honor.

 

[Silvercrest]

What should he have done instead?

 

[Timo]

Shot him in the head. It's always uncertain whether a fall to a certain death will do the job.

I'm not sure if self-defense would be relevant here. Killing Kruge was an important element in Kirk's ruse to get aboard Kruge's ship and capture it. Much like killing the soldiers in the pillbox at the gate is important in getting to the headquarters barracks and blowing that up. Kirk was at war with these clowns, as far as we can tell. Indeed, in the next movie, the Klingons make it explicit that there is no peace. The more dead Klingons, the more medals to Kirk's chest. And even if he previously waged war on stun at Organia, here toggling for stun would have been mere sadism...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[BillJ]

I find it unKirk-like that he would murder Kruge in such a callous manner. I always thought Kirk would look for even the slightest spark of possible redemption in his enemies and act accordingly.

Kruge was pathetic and helpless at this point.

Anyone else disappointed that Kirk gave in to anger instead of being more reasonable as we are accustomed to?

Kirk did attempt to save him.

“Give me your hand!”

Time was also a factor as Genesis was disintegrating around them. Kirk did the right thing within reason.

 

[FormerLurker]

It's always uncertain whether a fall to a certain death will do the job.

The whole 'floor is lava' thing made the certainty a little more certain, I think.

 

[Kirk Prime]

Self defense absolutely would apply. From the second Kruge encountered the Enterprise, they were trying to kill those on board. The entire time, Kirk's life was in imminent danger, except maybe when Kruge was hanging off the edge, and at that point, Kirk tried to save him.

That was VERY Kirk-like.

 

[Lance]

When Kruge was helpless and hanging for his life, Kirk reached out his hand to try to save him. But Kruge STILL tried to kill Kirk even in that state. At that point, Kirk kicked him off in self defense.

Exactly. Right up until the last moment where it was kill or be killed, Kirk was still offering Kruge a lifeline. This is the man who'd killed Kirk's son, and Kirk was still, up to the point where it was really not possible anymore, still willing to save him. Perfectly in character. Kruge rejected help. And then tried to kill Kirk. There's no moral quandry here. Kirk absolutely tried to do the right thing, even though on a personal level he must have not wanted to.

For as much as I see flaws in 2009 Trek, there's a similar moment there. Kirk offers Nero terms to survive being sucked into a black hole, despite this being the man who indirectly led to the death of Kirk's own father. Spock, of all people, whose mum died because of Nero, loudly objects, but in a very Kirk, very Star Trekky, way, the Captain argues that offering peace is more logical, something that the apparently much more vindictive Spock baulks at. But Kirk offers it anyway. To Nero, the man who killed Kirk's dad and Spock's mum, but no, that's James T. Kirk, that's Star Trek, that's Roddenberry's philosophy right there. Sometimes war is necessary, but peace is the first option. And like Kruge, Nero rejects the offer, and says he'd rather fight and die, so at that point, Kirk becomes the soldier and enters battle. But in both instances, peace is offered first. And rejected.

 

[Mark 2000]

You know you’re talking about the same guy who wanted to kill Kras in “Friday’s Child” purely out of revenge. Not even angry, passionate revenge. Very matter-of-fact, somebody’s-going-to-have-to revenge.

 

[fireproof78]

For as much as I see flaws in 2009 Trek, there's a similar moment there. Kirk offers Nero terms to survive being sucked into a black hole, despite this being the man who indirectly led to the death of Kirk's own father. Spock, of all people, whose mum died because of Nero, loudly objects, but in a very Kirk, very Star Trekky, way, the Captain argues that offering peace is more logical, something that the apparently much more vindictive Spock baulks at. But Kirk offers it anyway. To Nero, the man who killed Kirk's dad and Spock's mum, but no, that's James T. Kirk, that's Star Trek, that's Roddenberry's philosophy right there. Sometimes war is necessary, but peace is the first option. And like Kruge, Nero rejects the offer, and says he'd rather fight and die, so at that point, Kirk becomes the soldier and enters battle. But in both instances, peace is offered first. And rejected.

I know this isn't the thread for it but I love that scene so much.

 

[Lance]

I know this isn't the thread for it but I love that scene so much.

Both scenes show Kirk's innate character, though the '09 example is more significant and powerful, as it's arguably the first sign we get that James T. Kirk in the Kelvin universe is recognisably the great commander we know from TOS. It's a character defining moment, to be sure It's even more interesting that he's advocating compassion for an enemy to a version of Spock that is raw with emotion and bitterly opposed to the idea, because that even reenforces the idea that he's destined to be the Captain we know he is, no matter his circumstances in life.

 

[Lord Garth]

Considering that Kruge was about to drag Kirk to his death and Kirk already tried to save Kruge... I'd very much say it was self-defense.

Not that the Klingons cared. They were never serious about peace. Kruge certainly wasn't crazy about the idea in TSFS and the Klingons were very quick to take his side in TVH. I think one way or another, they would've found a way to stall peace negotiations until they would've gotten exactly what they wanted and would've used anything less as an excuse to stop negotiations. Kirk just made it easy for them.

It was only something as bad as what happened to Praxis that forced them to change their tune.

 

[ED-209]

He literally offered to save him seconds before he did it.

 

[Smellmet]

I find it unKirk-like that he would murder Kruge in such a callous manner. I always thought Kirk would look for even the slightest spark of possible redemption in his enemies and act accordingly.

Kruge was pathetic and helpless at this point.

Anyone else disappointed that Kirk gave in to anger instead of being more reasonable as we are accustomed to?

Yet another pointless thread from you.

 

[Vger23]

Nothing to add that hasn't already been said. Of course Kirk was justified. He offered Kruge his hand, Kruge responded by trying to kill him.

I'm not even sure how this was a question.

 

[trekshark]

Kirk was justified to shoot him in the back while hiding in the trees if he had that chance

 

[STEPhon IT]

I find it unKirk-like that he would murder Kruge in such a callous manner. I always thought Kirk would look for even the slightest spark of possible redemption in his enemies and act accordingly.

Kruge was pathetic and helpless at this point.

Anyone else disappointed that Kirk gave in to anger instead of being more reasonable as we are accustomed to?

Nope! Kruge was an asshole and his ignorance pissed me off throughout the entire soulless movie; I had enough of him as much as I had enough of The Search For Spock.

 

[BillJ]

You know you’re talking about the same guy who wanted to kill Kras in “Friday’s Child” purely out of revenge. Not even angry, passionate revenge. Very matter-of-fact, somebody’s-going-to-have-to revenge.

Bob the Discount Klingon caused a lot of death during his escapades on Capella IV, including smugly looking on as one of Kirk's security people were killed. I can see why he figured someone needed to take the Klingon out.

 

[Mark 2000]

Bob the Discount Klingon caused a lot of death during his escapades on Capella IV, including smugly looking on as one of Kirk's security people were killed. I can see why he figured someone needed to take the Klingon out.

My point is this was a way more cold-blooded (intended) kill than Kruge which was obviously an act of self-defense after an attempted rescue. With Kras Kirk was just trying to defend a position until help arrived. The Kaplan's were dealing with him themselves. Kirk targeted him practically for the joy of it much to Spock's distaste.

 

[BillJ]

The Kaplan's were dealing with him themselves.

I love spell check!

Also, I agreed with Kirk. In the original series, we weren’t above petty revenge when we were wronged.