Is STAR TREK Inherently Dark?

[Thomas Elliot]

Personally, while it took me a while to warm to DS9 I think this can be best reflected in the first episode. We have Picard meeting with Sisko and the emotional challenges that Sisko feels there. The feeling of things being "off" strikes me now as being very deliberate because Sisko is off. He is a man who is struggling with his sense of self, his new life aboard the station, and new role as the Emissary.

It has it's strengths and weaknesses. I hated Picard getting talked to like that but it made perfect sense for the episode and it was portrayed excellently.

The way people talked to one another was also more casual than in TNG, so they had to do something to distinguish themselves from TNG.

Yes, because cultural expectations for Klingons are different from Ferengi. And Quark demonstrates that at the end, which Gowron acknowledges.

I agree that on a very surface level these elements feel very disparate but I think it is deliberate.

But this is why DS9 feels too much like it's own thing, for me. The Dominion War is supposed to be a huge deal in the world of Star Trek, but it almost feels like it's not canon to me. We don't even see Picard and crew get involved. How important can it be? It didn't even affect anything significantly in the movies. Now, I get the reasoning behind the scenes of why the producers did that, but it makes it feel more like this alternate reality series, to me. It's almost like DC Comics Earth 2 and Earth 2.

With that said, DS9 became a great series but it never felt like Star Trek to me. To be fair, neither did the TNG movies. GEN a little. The rest no.

But yeah, I agree that it's all deliberate. I don't like the tone change overall as it applies to the franchise or world of ST, but for the show, it made it fun. Quark is one of my favorite characters.

 

[fireproof78]

But this is why DS9 feels too much like it's own thing, for me. The Dominion War is supposed to be a huge deal in the world of Star Trek, but it almost feels like it's not canon to me. We don't even see Picard and crew get involved. How important can it be? It didn't even affect anything significantly in the movies. Now, I get the reasoning behind the scenes of why the producers did that, but it makes it feel more like this alternate reality series, to me. It's almost like DC Comics Earth 2 and Earth 2.

I see that but so much of those conflicts are informed by TNG that it is hard for me to be like "Oh, DS9 is all on its own" when I can immediately go back to TNG for information, i.e. Cardassians, the Maquis, O'Brian, and Wolf 359. DS9 could not exist without TNG because it frames so much of the world.

Now, the Dominion War is a different story because the initial "front line" is right at DS9's doorstep. The Dominion had no other way to get at the Federation. The Cardassians are myopic because Bajor is representative of their loss, so their focus is less on the Federation and more on Bajor.

I agree that it all feels very myopic at times, but again, I think that is deliberate because Sisko and company feel so alone. TNG, as referenced many times in other threads, has the Enterprise swoop in and save the day.

It's separate and I can get that feeling. But, I cannot imagine DS9 without TNG, for good, for bad and otherwise.

 

[RandyS]

Because I think that in current culture there is a strong desire for simple answers, and life is not that way. While I am generally opposed to education through mass media I think the ability to sit in ambiguity is an important skill that is less focused upon in day to day activity. So, having a show that provides that challenge is building an important skill, to my mind.

Fair enough.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

a Federation which actually makes it policy that innocent people have to die just because they aren't advanced enough,

Which Captain Kirk defies in Star Trek Into Darkness by helping a similarly primitive people survive an erupting volcano, only for him to be called on the carpet and be (briefly) demoted, just because...the Prime Directive.

 

[suarezguy]

^I think, or arguably, he was demoted more for lying about his actions then that he decided to bend the rules (Spock probably wouldn't participate in something outright majorly illegal, and he didn't see a need to lie about it). But the shows do show how trying to save another species can lead to the "savior" then corrupting or exploiting the others.

 

[Ocanain]

I would assert that it’s the opposite in most cases. The Star Trek universe as a representation of humanity is a bit dark but the way humans themselves are characterised is quite positive.

I’m watching DS9 at the moment and I find that even more optimistic than some of the other series in that it’s not so bound by Federation dogma so highlights optimism and determination in the human spirit.

 

[fireproof78]

Which Captain Kirk defies in Star Trek Into Darkness by helping a similarly primitive people survive an erupting volcano, only for him to be called on the carpet and be (briefly) demoted, just because...the Prime Directive.

And falsifying reports, and inciting other officers to be complicit in that lie. It demonstrates a severe lack of responsibility for being a captain and not just regarding the Prime Directive.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

And falsifying reports, and inciting other officers to be complicit in that lie. It demonstrates a severe lack of responsibility for being a captain and not just regarding the Prime Directive.

What you saw as all that, I saw as a guy who was not so heartless that he would allow a relatively young species to die. That's why Captain Kirk is who he is, and why people love him for it.

 

[fireproof78]

What you saw as all that, I saw as a guy who was not so heartless that he would allow a relatively young species to die. That's why Captain Kirk is who he is, and why people love him for it.

Yes, Kirk did the right thing, but it doesn't change his personal responsibility, and his pride, in boasting to Pike about breaking the rules and not facing consequences. You are assuming I disagree with Kirk's decision and I do not. But, I also recognize that there are consequences for his actions.

Both of these things are true at the same time. And Kirk had to learn.

It is a multilayered situation. And that's why I love it.