Spoilers Episode 7 "Nepenthe"

[fireproof78]

I am baffled that some fans think the TNG federation was this perfect place of peace and love that did everything right..

Same here. I am trying to figure out which TNG others are watching and how I can watch it too, since I am clearly watching the wrong show... O_o

I find the idea that organisesd religion on Star Trek Earth loses its political power and theocracies are a thing of the past a good thing, but I would hope humans are diverse enough to accept other humans having religious or non religious beliefs as long as said beliefs are not harmful to others.

I completely agree with this. If Star Trek is open and accepting and celebrating differences then it includes religion, not excludes it.

 

[Nyotarules]

Same here. I am trying to figure out which TNG others are watching and how I can watch it too, since I am clearly watching the wrong show... O_o

I completely agree with this. If Star Trek is open and accepting and celebrating differences then it includes religion, not excludes it.

Future humans are meant to be less prejudiced towards their fellow humans no matter what they believe, its the alien beliefs they are meant to disdain lol McCoy was mocking of Vulcan mindmelds, Admiral Morrow was dismissive of Vulcan 'mysticism'. Some seem to think humans swing from fundamentalists religious fanatics to fundamentalists secular humanists. No wonder some of the Native Americans moved all the way to the Cardassian border so they can practise what they want in peace.

 

[bookworm8571]

The 'telepathic guiding' thing is from Discovery. I think the depiction of the Vulcan culture is a bit inconsistent, but I really wouldn't interpret it as a religion in traditional sense. Vulcans are telepathic, they literally have 'magic powers.' This may seem mystical and weird to humans, but to them it probably isn't. It is like how to a species without hearing us humans being able to communicate via speech would seem magical, and our fascination with music would seem like incomprehensible mysticism.. Vulcan monks and priests are just people who are mastering the practice and science related to their telepathic abilities. But this is the part that I referred to in my last posts. Things get a bit muddy in a setting where 'gods' and 'magic powers' demonstrably exist and can be scientifically studied.

It may look inconsistent because there is more than one religion on Vulcan, more than one culture, more than one philosophy, etc. It would be extremely improbable for it to be otherwise or for all humans to suddenly believe in the same thing or not believe. People are individuals. I also don’t think basic human or humanoid nature would have changed. Give the ancient Romans advanced technology and they would act a lot like us and vice versa. I prefer a messy Trek with emotional complexity and religions.

 

[Laptopia]

The biggest remaining plot hole for me is this: Let's just assume that the Zhat Vash (and Commodore Oh) know with some degree of certainty about this horrible terrible no good very bad future where life is eradicated from the galaxy because of synths. So, if that is a given, why the Machiavellian tactics? Why have a sociopath (Rizzo) kill innocent xBs? Do you need to hire sociopaths to accomplish your aims? If you are privy to this knowledge and it is so damning and convincing that you got Jurati to abandon her life's work and kill her former lover, then why not simply share that info? With Hugh, Picard, and whomever else needs to know?

Oh shared this knowledge with Jurati, why not also Picard? Unless it is misinformation, which is possible. But in that case, we get right back to square one: If the future is not distopian, then why on earth do these people care one whit about synths and why are they going to such extreme lengths to hunt down all AI in the galaxy? Just because they are "bad"? I really hope not, because that is very much unsatisfying.

 

[cultcross]

I was saving my ten score in my back pocket, thinking I might need it later. That was wise - I needed it today. Napenthe was a fantastic episode, my favourite hour of Trek since DS9 went off the air.
Bravo.

 

[Thomas Elliot]

Seems like none of that should be a problem for a spy organization with unlimited resources whole sole purpose is to eliminate synthetic life.

This stuck out to me as well when the the secret of the Zhat Vash was introduced. Their secret is...that they hate androids.
This secret that could destroy a mind slips out once one Romulan gets drunk. Sounds like this secret would be very hard to keep all these years.

And it's not presented like it's this fringe group of radicals that just seized power and resources in the last 10-15 years, or that they were suppressed, or that it was just a matter of funding. The impression is that yes, there's the there's the secretive Tal Shiar organization, but there's an even more secretive organization, the Zhat Vash. So the impression is that they were two organizations operating simultaneously but that one was even more covert and secretive than the other because of the "secret."
Had the Zhat Vash been introduced as this obscure cabal of cultists who seized power in between TNG and PIC it might make a little more sense. But the way it's introduced it comes across like a very blatant retcon.

It seems like Data would have been a prime target for assassination or deconstruction. Romulans were depicted as very clever, like when they fed their own generals disinformation in order to test their loyalty, all in order to lure a Federation starship into a trap so they could capture the crew and ship itself. Something similar could have been done to get at Data.
But they didn't have the resources.
That still doesn't satisfy the retcon. If the Zhat Vash truly believe that a synthetic being could bring about the mass destruction of worlds, the destructor, they would FIND a way to get at Data. Some kind of attempt.

We might get a more explanation on the history and structure of the Zhat Vash but the way it was introduced seemed out of left field. It's just one of those things you gotta overlook in order to enjoy the ride. The other expansion on Romulan culture is enough to distract from any possible plot holes with the Zhat Vash.

 

[Gonzo]

Maybe other elements within the Romulan Empire have suppressed the Zhat Vash for centuries, but now with everything in disarray, this is finally their time to rise up and do their thing.

Kor

That could be a valid reason why the Zhat Vash have become more active, it also gives them double the gain from the attack on Mars, the synth ban and the failed rescue causing the collapse of the Romulan State and Tal Shiar enabling them to act more openly in the power vacuum that leaves behind.

However we still have yet to gain an inkling about who/how/why the Star went Supernova when it shouldn't have.

 

[Danja]

Who is Captain Crandall?

https://www.newsweek.com/picard-epi...rupert-star-trek-cbs-all-acess-amazon-1490944

 

[Gonzo]

I was saving my ten score in my back pocket, thinking I might need it later. That was wise - I needed it today. Napenthe was a fantastic episode, my favourite hour of Trek since DS9 went off the air.
Bravo.

Now I am curious to know what your favourite DS9 episode was?

 

[Yistaan]

Here's a real huge oddity that, while not necessarily a contradiction per se, seems very jarring when you think about Soji's job description.

Soji was sent, despite her not knowing it, to the Borg cube to learn info. She has android level intelligence. She knows things about the Borg cube even Hugh didn't, without understanding why. She hungrily seeks knowledge, even going through the trouble of learning alien languages without a translator.

Yet when faced with 2 of the most infamous men in Borg history, Riker and Picard, at no time does she show signs of recognition. Nor any sign of recognition of the name Data, or any reaction that her "father" along with Riker saved the galaxy from the Borg after Wolf 359 and later outwitted the Borg Queen herself. Keep in mind Picard's fame among the Borg is so huge that to this day, on the very cube Soji worked on for 3 years, he's instantly recognized as Locutus.

This would be as jarring as a high level researcher being employed by Apple for 3 years and not knowing who Bill Gates is.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Who is Captain Crandall?

https://www.newsweek.com/picard-epi...rupert-star-trek-cbs-all-acess-amazon-1490944

I just want his first name to be revealed as Tony.

 

[bookworm8571]

I always assume that the timeline has been altered so many times that we’re looking at a different version of history than in the original series or The Next Generation or Deep Space Nine. Maybe the original series timeline continues on one track and that of the novels on another and the one in the movies yet another, etc. Assume Future Guy screwed things up and Archer and T’Pol and Kirk, Spock, and McCoy and Capt. Sisco and his crew and the Borg all did some damage. Michael and her mother altered various things with their time jumps. Control reached way back in time to do its thing and control all of time and space. I think Control is going to be the big villain on this show.

 

[Gonzo]

Here's a real huge oddity that, while not necessarily a contradiction per se, seems very jarring when you think about Soji's job description.

Soji was sent, despite her not knowing it, to the Borg cube to learn info. She has android level intelligence. She knows things about the Borg cube even Hugh didn't, without understanding why.

Yet when faced with 2 of the most infamous men in Borg history, Riker and Picard, at no time does she show signs of recognition. Nor any sign of recognition of the name Data, or any reaction that her "father" along with Riker saved the galaxy from the Borg after Wolf 359 and later outwitted the Borg Queen herself. Keep in mind Picard's fame among the Borg is so huge that to this day, on the very cube Soji worked on for 3 years, he's instantly recognized as Locutus.

This would be as jarring as a high level researcher being employed by Apple for 3 years and not knowing who Bill Gates is.

It did feel a bit odd to me as well.

Dahj knew Picard before she even met him.

Soji didnt even recognise Picard when he was standing in front of her.

It would indicate that the twins were not given the same information or their AI mother triggered something in Dahj but not Soji as it didn't get the chance to, plus Soji was too far away and the AI wouldn't know that Picard was there anyway.

 

[JD]

The whole Q thing just seems like wishful thinking to me.
I've seen a few people complain about Thad Riker not being saved, but I kind of got the impression that he got sick after the Mars attack and the ban on synths. So it wasn't that Starfleet or the Federation chose not to save him, but that they couldn't because there were no more positronic networks left to use.

Here's a real huge oddity that, while not necessarily a contradiction per se, seems very jarring when you think about Soji's job description.

Soji was sent, despite her not knowing it, to the Borg cube to learn info. She has android level intelligence. She knows things about the Borg cube even Hugh didn't, without understanding why.

Yet when faced with 2 of the most infamous men in Borg history, Riker and Picard, at no time does she show signs of recognition. Nor any sign of recognition of the name Data, or any reaction that her "father" along with Riker saved the galaxy from the Borg after Wolf 359 and later outwitted the Borg Queen herself. Keep in mind Picard's fame among the Borg is so huge that to this day, on the very cube Soji worked on for 3 years, he's instantly recognized as Locutus.

This would be as jarring as a high level researcher being employed by Apple for 3 years and not knowing who Bill Gates is.

I don't think we really know enough about exactly how Soji's connection to the Borg, or whatever else was going on there, to say what she should or should not have known.

 

[Yistaan]

The whole Q thing just seems like wishful thinking to me.
I've seen a few people complain about Thad Riker not being saved, but I kind of got the impression that he got sick after the Mars attack and the ban on synths. So it wasn't that Starfleet or the Federation chose not to save him, but that they couldn't because there were no more positronic networks left to use.

I don't think we really know enough about exactly how Soji's connection to the Borg, or whatever else was going on there, to say what she should or should not have known.

It did feel a bit odd to me as well.

Dahj knew Picard before she even met him.

Soji didnt even recognise Picard when he was standing in front of her.

It would indicate that the twins were not given the same information or their AI mother triggered something in Dahj but not Soji as it didn't get the chance to, plus Soji was too far away and the AI wouldn't know that Picard was there anyway.

Keep in mind Soji is part of a project that deassimilates Borg. She doesn't know who the first and most famed success of de-assimilation is?

 

[Soong-type Android]

An overly mawkish, touchy feely episode, but at least we got to see what Riker and Troi are up to. 5/10

 

[Nyotarules]

So it wasn't that Starfleet or the Federation chose not to save him, but that they couldn't because there were no more positronic networks left to use.

The show states there was a ban on making them, so the UFP is still to blame

 

[Danja]

Sentimental fluff. 5/10

 

[Nerys Myk]

I've already addressed my complaints about Maddox's death in other posts so I'm not going to retread, you can look up those posts.

I know, some were in response to my own posts. You did not present a compelling arguement then and I was hoping you might this time. To everyone on board she did not murder Maddox she simply failed to save his life. No one on board knows what happened and why because they are not watching Star Trek Picard.

As for Jurati getting this chemical, I'd imagine the replicator would scan her to see if she actually needs it or ask what it's for. But if she's getting it for someone else, I'd imagine that would require special authorization (like the Captain). No different than if I wanted some of the special equipment at work, I'd need management to sign off on it. At the end of the day, it's not her ship.

And why would a replicator do that? Have they been shown to have a "nanny state" mode in the past? Jurarti seems to have medical privileges aboard the ship. Heck Raffi seems to have a lot privileges too. She's has full access to the computer systems to do what she wants.
I don't think Rios's little one man operation is as complicated as what ever corporate bureaucracy you're part of.

 

[Yistaan]

And why would a replicator do that? Have they been shown to have a "nanny state" mode in the past?

Holodeck safety protocols. There's usually a command level override to get around those. Why would a replicator be different?

I can't even re-enter a shopping entry on self-checkout in the real world without a supermarket clearance code from an employee. Again, this isn't Agnes' ship. If Rios were the one ordering the dangerous chemicals, I have no doubt he could do it as he's the captain.