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Spoilers The Rise of Skywalker Novel Confirms How Palpatine Returned

I'm glad the novelization pointed out the glaringly obvious.
The Emperor's return was and is a dumb idea. Swap him out for a healed Snoke, dump the "Rey is a Palpatine" garbage, and the film would be about 75% better.
 
Jay's utter disinterest in this debate is the finest gold:

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And, now it comes out that Rey's father was a failed clone of Palpatine.

How do souls work in Star Wars? It would seem that Palpatine did not need a vessel to contain his soul, he could travel the vast distances between one body went poof and where another body was available as a non-corporeal creature. And how did he find his way to the new body?
 
"Luminous being are we, not this crude matter", ~Yoda.

While the Clones of the Grand Army of the Republic were all based on the same guy, Yoda would tell each of them apart. They all has a different presence in the Force.

For Palpatine. Sure he could cruise around as a spirit, but as a Dark Side user, he didn't understand, nor learn about the Force Ghost deal that Qui-Gon had found out about and passed on to some of the Jedi. Instead Palpatine needed a body to manipulate things...the Force...the Galaxy....his troops. I also imagine, that being without a body for him was a bit maddening.
 
Ever since the premier of ROTJ, I've taken it as a given that the Emperor's spirit survived his death, because of the decision to add the VFX of a fancy light show when his body is destroyed upon contact with whatever it was in the shaft that Anakin tossed him into (reactor core/whatever).

Those of us who had the privilege of first viewing the episodes in release order (IV, V, VI, before I, II, III) know that certain plot points were surprises. That Darth Vader is Luke's father is the most obvious example. In terms of the Emperor, it was a surprise that the Emperor had the ability of Force lightning. This was a surprise to Luke and a surprise to the audience (it's kinda sad that audiences who watch the Saga in episode order can't be surprised by this). Getting to my point in bringing this up, getting to Episode IX and learning that things are different from what we've been told so far or assumed is just another one of these twists. As such, it fits right in.

As for the idea that it's a fault in the story if Anakin didn't destroy the Emperor completely, that's nonsense. Anakin rejected the Emperor's authority over him, and coming out from under the influence of the Emperor to save both Luke and the Rebellion is more than a sufficient definition of redeeming and restoring himself.

The idea that the leader of the Sith had vast abilities, the abilities of all the Sith masters who had preceded him is perfectly reasonable. It explains how one person could be so insanely powerful. It explains how the arch enemy of the Jedi could walk among all of them and yet virtually none of the Jedi could detect him. The Emperor's origins preceded Anakin, and it is perfectly fitting that his ultimate demise should occur after Anakin is gone.

As final two points, the evident Sith master ability to fuse their Force ghosts nicely complements the nascent Jedi Force ghost power, and the legend of Darth Plagueis that Palpatine recounted to Anakin is cast in a new and interesting light.
 
CorporalCaptain said:
As for the idea that it's a fault in the story if Anakin didn't destroy the Emperor completely, that's nonsense. Anakin rejected the Emperor's authority over him, and coming out from under the influence of the Emperor to save both Luke and the Rebellion is more than a sufficient definition of redeeming and restoring himself.
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Exactly. The whole "Balance to the Force" is something that wasn't in Vader's mind at that moment. Consequences be damned Anakin was going to defeat the Emperor to save his son.

CorporalCaptain said:
Getting to my point in bringing this up, getting to Episode IX and learning that things are different from what we've been told so far or assumed is just another one of these twists. As such, it fits right in.
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I agree. I recently watched a video essay that was on this topic. We go in to SW with all these notions now, but the story wasn't what it was always thought to be at first appearance. Episode IX fits in that mold as does the rest of the ST because it moves past a lot of assumptions and in to a deeper meaning.
 
My main takeaway from all of this: if you need the novelization of you movie to have your actual movie plot make some semblance of sense, then you done made a bad movie. Supplementary material should be exactly that.
 
Anakin’s act in ROTJ - of choosing to turn against The Emperor - effectively redeemed himself, and saved his son from death, and ‘killed’ Sidious, at least weakening him, despite not killing him outright.

Perhaps surprisingly (even for myself) I didn’t need an explanation as to how Sidious returned: the means and motivations had been setup back in the PT (cloning, unnatural dark side abilities, etc) so I didn’t feel I required an explanation, personally speaking.

Worked for me :shrug:
 
saddestmoon said:
Anakin’s act in ROTJ - of choosing to turn against The Emperor - effectively redeemed himself, and saved his son from death, and ‘killed’ Sidious, at least weakening him, despite not killing him outright.

Perhaps surprisingly (even for myself) I didn’t need an explanation as to how Sidious returned: the means and motivations had been setup back in the PT (cloning, unnatural dark side abilities, etc) so I didn’t feel I required an explanation, personally speaking.

Worked for me :shrug:
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It worked for me too.
 
Reverend said:
My main takeaway from all of this: if you need the novelization of you movie to have your actual movie plot make some semblance of sense, then you done made a bad movie. Supplementary material should be exactly that.
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This was a problem that the prequels suffered from. For example, the relation of Darth Sidious to Darth Plagueis was not actually spelled out in ROTS.

I felt that the return of the Emperor in Episode IX was clear enough. The description given upthread from the tie-in material is completely in line with what I surmised had occurred/was occurring.
 
CorporalCaptain said:
This was a problem that the prequels suffered from. For example, the relation of Darth Sidious to Darth Plagueis was not actually spelled out in ROTS.
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I think the implication was fairly clear from Ian's performance. Besides, even if that went over some people's heads, it's not like it was central to the plot. It's a peripheral detail at most.

CorporalCaptain said:
I felt that the return of the Emperor in Episode IX was clear enough. The description given upthread from the tie-in material is completely in line with what I surmised had occurred/was occurring.
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Character last seen plummeting to his death, screaming in mortal terror, in a station that in mostly vaporised shortly afterwards...and all the explanation we get is "Dark Science!", "Sith Magic!" and "Because RJ killed my villain in the last movie and I'm out of ideas!"
Sure. That was all crystal clear! :lol:
 
Reverend said:
My main takeaway from all of this: if you need the novelization of you movie to have your actual movie plot make some semblance of sense, then you done made a bad movie. Supplementary material should be exactly that.
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You took the words right out of my mouth, Reverend.
 
Reverend said:
I think the implication was fairly clear from Ian's performance. Besides, even if that went over some people's heads, it's not like it was central to the plot. It's a peripheral detail at most.
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Palpatine was an established liar, obfuscator, and twister of the truth. Little of what he said could be reliably accepted on face value, much less anything implied by his words.

Character last seen plummeting to his death, screaming in mortal terror, in a station that in mostly vaporised shortly afterwards...and all the explanation we get is "Dark Science!", "Sith Magic!" and "Because RJ killed my villain in the last movie and I'm out of ideas!"
Sure. That was all crystal clear! :lol:
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You forgot the light show upon his death, that played like a ghost rushing into space, but OK.... :lol:
 
fireproof78 said:
Darth Maul says "Hi."
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There is a UNIVERSE of different between "almost mute henchman" coming back from the dead and "the main villian of the entire saga" coming back.
Also, that's a terrible example because Maul's return had an actual foreshadowing, a build up and you know...and actual narrative point to the whole thing. He didn't just pop back up out of nowhere, waffle some mystical mumbo jumbo like it's suddenly the Highlander franchise, then get instantly dispatched.
CorporalCaptain said:
Palpatine was an established liar, obfuscator, and twister of the truth. Little of what he said could be reliably accepted on face value, much less anything implied by his words.
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And?
CorporalCaptain said:
You forgot the light show upon his death, that played like a ghost rushing into space, but OK.... :lol:
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Pretty sure that was in the script back when the best Lucas could think up was "push him in the lava pool", and it was mostly there just to make sure the death didn't seem anti-climactic, and wasn't really supposed to indicate anything special beyond "evil sorcerer is dead!" Lucas was always very firm on the "no, he's really dead and no, he's not coming back" points.
 
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Reverend said:
There is a UNIVERSE of different between "almost mute henchman" coming back from the dead and "the main villian of the entire saga" coming back.
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There really isn't. It is established in the franchise as a possibility within the franchise itself. "Because main character" isn't an excuse for why it can't be applied.
Reverend said:
Also, that's a terrible example because Maul's return had an actual foreshadowing, a build up and you know...and actual narrative point to the whole thing. He didn't just pop back up out of nowhere, waffle some mystical mumbo jumbo like it's suddenly the Highlander franchise, then get instantly dispatched.
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Difference between a TV show and a film. As I stated previously, I followed with the Emperor's reappearance just fine. It is consistent with lore, worked within the context of the story.

Mileage will vary.
 
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