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Year of Hell, pt.1 and 2

Dryson

Commodore
Commodore
I just finished watching this episode. Very good episode. Jane-way used the Voyager to destroy the time weapon ship thus restoring the time line. The time line however was only re-arranged to allow the Voyager safe passage through the region.

The time weapon ship had not been developed at this point based on the end where we see Annorox at his desk working on his calculations when his wife walks in. So it's obvious that Voyager altered the past only slightly. The eventualities of Annorox's time line still come to pass where billions of lifeforms are erased from history altogether.

One aspect that is unsettling is that Annorox mentioned accessing the Continuum several times. Could Annorox have been from the Continuum and was toying with Voyager much like Q enjoyed toying with Picard? Annorox did mention that time had, emotions thus suggesting a personality.

I seriously doubt that the Continuum would allow a sentient biological species to eradicate countless worlds and species. If those worlds and species had been in contact with another member from the Continuum, wiping the species out could very well have wiped the Continuum out due to a cascade failure of the Continuum do to interaction. Interactions between the biological species and the Q and the Q with other Q. With the time line being restored, the Krenim should still have the ability to use the time weapon ship against the Alpha Quadrant if and when the Krenim find the Alpha Quadrant.

But, in Endgame ,an event that takes place after Year of Hell, Voyager encounters a Transwarp Hub. After destroying two Borg Cubes, Voyager investigates the hub. During the few hours of interaction with the Borg it is very likely that Borg, at some point accessed the data banks of files and downloaded the files to the Collective. Most likely when the Borg Queen came to visit Seven.

While searching through the data files of Voyager the Borg would have undoubtedly have come across the interaction between the Voyager and the Krenim. The Borg investigate the Krenim and discover their temporal weapons and shielding. Without the Krenim knowing where the Borg homeworld is located and their time time weapon ship unable to be used to erase the Borg from the time line, the Krenim and all of their technology are assimilated by the Borg.

Weapons that the Borg can use to wipe the Federation out of the galaxy permanently, without any time line shifts effecting the Collective.
 
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The time weapon ship had not been developed at this point based on the end where we see Annorox at his desk working on his calculations when his wife walks in. So it's obvious that Voyager altered the past only slightly. The eventualities of Annorox's time line still come to pass where billions of lifeforms are erased from history altogether.

I don't agree.

As we saw many times, when the ship does a temporal incursion on a target, it creates a new timeline where that target never existed. Same story here. The only difference is that in its final moments before destruction, the ship did an incursion ON ITSELF (Annorax even points this out - he says "it's going to cause a temporal incursion within the ship"). Thus creating a new timeline where the ship will never exist.

One aspect that is unsettling is that Annorox mentioned accessing the Continuum several times. Could Annorox have been from the Continuum and was toying with Voyager much like Q enjoyed toying with Picard? Annorox did mention that time had, emotions thus suggesting a personality.

Annorax was talking about the space-time continuum, not the Q.
 
While searching through the data files of Voyager the Borg would have undoubtedly have come across the interaction between the Voyager and the Krenim. The Borg investigate the Krenim and discover their temporal weapons and shielding. Without the Krenim knowing where the Borg homeworld is located and their time time weapon ship unable to be used to erase the Borg from the time line, the Krenim and all of their technology are assimilated by the Borg.
Since the time ship never existed, there's nothing for the Borg to learn about or assimilate
 
The Borg assimilated Annorax before Seven's Liberation, becuase we heard tell of him in Infinite Regress.

There's a copy of him inside Seven of Nine.
 
Are you sure? I don't remember that...

[Bridge]

CHAKOTAY: Meet anyone interesting?
JANEWAY: Just finished swapping jokes with a Bolian manicurist. Before that, I was debating the finer points of temporal physics with a Krenim scientist. Twelve new personalities have surfaced in the past hour alone. Seven's having a rough time of it. The Doctor had to sedate her.
CHAKOTAY: How's the Captain holding up?
JANEWAY: I've been better, Chakotay. In fact, I'm starting to wonder if my First Officer was right all along.
CHAKOTAY: About what?
JANEWAY: You always said that bringing Seven into the fold might be impossible.
CHAKOTAY: You can take the Borg out of the Collective, but. I don't believe that. Not anymore. I didn't think she'd last a day, much less a year. I'd say you've proven me wrong.
TORRES [OC]: Torres to Bridge. We're ready to begin disabling the Vinculum.
JANEWAY: Proceed.

http://www.chakoteya.net/Voyager/509.htm
 
I always though when Janeway told Chakotay to recycle the watch he should of said

"It's recycled from the bones of my people"

So knowing that she accepts it, turns it round and it has "Ha Coochie Moya" engraved on the back.
 
Before that, I was debating the finer points of temporal physics with a Krenim scientist.

Krenim species have "chroniton torpedoes" (which are said to be 'in a state of temporal flux') in most of the timelines, suggesting that there's a 'tendency' for the species to have developed technology in that direction. Probably independently from Annorax too, as Annorax seems to have left the Krenim imperium as much in the dark about the existence of his particularly powerful technology as everyone else. So there probably would be other Krenim scientists working in this direction (but being not as "successful" as Annorax).
 
"Year of Hell" is a fantastic concept, but give it any thought and it falls apart. A delete ray that shoots things and makes it so they never existed? Awesome.

But... how far does it go? Do the victim's families get erased elsewhere? Do sperm vanish from their fathers' testicles? And what of the testicles that created the sperm? How far does it go back?? Does the factory where the captain's favourite teacup get erased when a ship is destroyed, or patches of earth where the raw materials were taken? Or the entire planet??
 
"Year of Hell" is a fantastic concept, but give it any thought and it falls apart. A delete ray that shoots things and makes it so they never existed? Awesome.

But... how far does it go? Do the victim's families get erased elsewhere? Do sperm vanish from their fathers' testicles? And what of the testicles that created the sperm? How far does it go back?? Does the factory where the captain's favourite teacup get erased when a ship is destroyed, or patches of earth where the raw materials were taken? Or the entire planet??

Apart from the final scene, we've only seen the weapon used on entire planets. So none of those things would really apply.
 
"Year of Hell" is a fantastic concept, but give it any thought and it falls apart. A delete ray that shoots things and makes it so they never existed? Awesome.

But... how far does it go? Do the victim's families get erased elsewhere? Do sperm vanish from their fathers' testicles? And what of the testicles that created the sperm? How far does it go back?? Does the factory where the captain's favourite teacup get erased when a ship is destroyed, or patches of earth where the raw materials were taken? Or the entire planet??

If you wake up one day and something is mysteriously missing from your person, you'll know how far back it goes.

Kor
 
Apart from the final scene, we've only seen the weapon used on entire planets. So none of those things would really apply.
We do see ships erased during the ending battle. But that said, even stellar bodies have long and complicated histories. What about every asteroid that impacted a target planet, and their histories? If the asteroid came from a world destroyed by some stellar collision, do those vanish also?
 
We do see ships erased during the ending battle. But that said, even stellar bodies have long and complicated histories. What about every asteroid that impacted a target planet, and their histories? If the asteroid came from a world destroyed by some stellar collision, do those vanish also?

I think so:

CHAKOTAY: Component 37329, a rogue comet. About eight months ago, Voyager made a course correction to avoid the comet. According to my calculations, it led to our entering Krenim space.
ANNORAX: The solution, then, would be to erase that comet from history.
CHAKOTAY: Exactly. Voyager would have stayed on its course and bypassed Krenim space altogether.
ANNORAX: Sounds simple enough. Conduct a simulation.
CHAKOTAY: Temporal incursion in progress. What happened?
ANNORAX: Had you actually eradicated that comet, all life within fifty light years would never have existed. Congratulations, You almost wiped out eight thousand civilisations.
CHAKOTAY: I didn't consider the entire history of the comet.
 
This episode confused me when I was younger as I thought they kept saying “temporary shielding”. I kept asking to myself why that would make such a difference. :)
 
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