Star Trek Picard is not Star Trek

[Thomas Elliot]

This is intellectually confused. Dahj was superhuman. There's no realism issue.

How should a superhuman combatant pitted against a bunch of normal combatants look?

I get that, but as an audience, we're used to seeing regular humans pulling off these superhuman-like fighting feats. So seeing a "synth" do the exact same onscreen isn't impressive, even though it makes sense within the story. And on top of that, the way it's portrayed is something we've all seen before, whether it be in the various Bourne films, or the MCU.
And in addition, we don't get any emotional consequences or mental repercussions for the character. It's meant to be cool though for the series opener.
Now we get Elnor providing similar type of awesome action. Just prior we had Picard being cool and having guns stashed all over his house, something we've seen plenty of times in movies, and him and his house keepers kicking ass.
But Elnor kills someone, hey that's wrong.
But he's right back to kicking ass in the Borg cube. "Picard, I can't go with you because I have to stick around and kill some more people. It's my thing."
I still like the show and maybe they'll address it. But in the meant time it's something I find fault with.

 

[fireproof78]

Since when is killing Borg bad? Picard killed them with no compunction, Janeway slaughtered whole cubes.

 

[Thomas Elliot]

Since when is killing Borg bad? Picard killed them with no compunction, Janeway slaughtered whole cubes.

I believe Elnor was killing Romulans in the Borg cube. And again, I used TNG as my comparison, not VOY, a show I already find a lot of fault with so I'm not sure why you're bringing up Janeway.

 

[STEPhon IT]

It wants to be a 10-hour long movie, and so far it is succeeding in that.

The first portion of this 10-hour movie (like any movie) introduced characters and set up the premise, the next couple of portion found those characters carrying out the action driven by the story. Along the way, those characters run into problems (both plot problems and personal problems) that puts them and their plan-of-action at risk. I'm assuming the final portion of the story will have them overcome and resolve the problems they encountered around the middle part.

I suppose the tone of each episode might vary a little (the Freecloud/Stardust City Episode comes to mind), but that is minimal and serves to offer up a little variety and separate the each episode "chapter." However, the overall tone has so far been consistent throughout, and is very much in line with the general storyline being told -- which is of a man disillusioned with the same institutions he once revered in his past, and who is still harboring some guilt over the ultimate sacrifice a friend made to trade his own life to save Picard's. Picard sets out on a quest that might serve to help him come to terms with both of those issues.

That storyline has not wavered since it was presented to us early on. There are some side issues with the characters (such as Raffi and her personal demons), but those serve to add depth the the supporting characters, which is common for any well-told story.

His backstory, learning about the mystery girl, finding a crew or a team of supporters, searching and finding Data's daughter and having cameo appearances of past Trek characters could've been wrapped up in a two hour movie. Each episode so far is plotting in a snail-like pace. I don't think the series needs 10 hours to reveal the Romulans created the Borg or Data's daughter becoming the new Borg Queen.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Not really the sort of thing that was done back then. The fight choreography was less flashy and not as influenced by Asian Cinema.

Nonetheless, Jadzia had some flashy moves in Way of the Warrior.

 

[The Wormhole]

Since when is killing Borg bad? Picard killed them with no compunction,

In First Contact, he even killed a guy who had only been injected with nanoprobes but still had his individuality.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Nonetheless, Jadzia had some flashy moves in Way of the Warrior.

You're not allowed to mention DS9 stuff. It's a rule or something.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

You're not allowed to mention DS9 stuff. It's a rule or something.

Me? Referencing DS9 is my superpower.

 

[Turtletrekker]

The funny thing is you can find dozens of Biblical allusions throughout the various Star Trek series. Spock compares tribbles to the "lillies of the field which neither toil or spin". Harry Mudd quotes the Bible when he tells the androids that "human beings do not survive on bread alone". The project Genesis in Star Trek II is taken from the first book of the Bible. DS9 episode titles such as "Nor The Battle to the Strong" and "Let he is who without Sin" are taken from popular KJV Bible verses.

As well as indications that there are still humans who practice religion. On Ds9, Kasidy Yates told Sisko that her mother would prefer that they be married by a minister rather than a Starfleet admiral, the original series episode Dagger of the Mind mentioned a Christmas party on the ship. Data mentioned a celebration of the Hindu festival of lights on board the Enterprise in Data's Day.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Me? Referencing DS9 is my superpower.

Tommy Elliot doesn't approve.

 

[cooleddie74]

Once on a visit to East Africa I referenced a Dominion War episode of DS9...it was truly amazing.

 

[The Wormhole]

So, this one time on DS9...

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Tommy Elliot doesn't approve.

So it's like a golf handicap.

 

[Thomas Elliot]

In First Contact, he even killed a guy who had only been injected with nanoprobes but still had his individuality.

They did address that at the end how Picard had succumbed to revenge and Alfre Woodard's character was criticizing Picard for not even trying to save Lynch. Not my favorite ST movie, and very much what I dislike with the action hero direction it was taking.

 

[AlanC9]

I get that, but as an audience, we're used to seeing regular humans pulling off these superhuman-like fighting feats. So seeing a "synth" do the exact same onscreen isn't impressive, even though it makes sense within the story. And on top of that, the way it's portrayed is something we've all seen before, whether it be in the various Bourne films, or the MCU.

I'm still looking for an actual problem with the scene. Since the scene worked for the story, what's the issue? Dahj shouldn't display her superhuman abilities because.. it might look like something you've seen before?

Your whole argument here seems to rely on -- to be about -- some implicit assumptions which I not only don't share, but can't actually identify.

 

[Lord Garth]

And on top of that, the way it's portrayed is something we've all seen before, whether it be in the various Bourne films, or the MCU.

Not "everyone". I don't watch MCU Movies. I haven't in 10 years. I also only saw the first Bourne Identity film. Those aren't the types of movies I go for.

 

[fireproof78]

I believe Elnor was killing Romulans in the Borg cube. And again, I used TNG as my comparison, not VOY, a show I already find a lot of fault with so I'm not sure why you're bringing up Janeway.

Because, honestly, ignoring DS9 and VOY and ENT is to ignore how the art of Star trek has developed over time.

Action scenes have been a part of Trek for a while:

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[Bad Thoughts]

Because, honestly, ignoring DS9 and VOY and ENT is to ignore how the art of Star trek has developed over time.

As is pointed out in Fifty Year Mission, the price of special effects dropped over the nineties, meaning that the elaborate fights the writers imagined during the TNG days were no longer prohibitively expensive by 2000.

(Hopefully Tommy won't prohibit Fifty Year Mission, another great debunking tool.)

 

[Thomas Elliot]

I'm still looking for an actual problem with the scene. Since the scene worked for the story, what's the issue?

One big criticism that I have of PIC is that early on the references to other well-known sci-fi seemed to be too obvious. It was too much like Blade Runner. I had a similar problem with Star Trek: First Contact and how it seemed to borrow too much from James Cameron's Aliens. PIC itself seemed to be have all these references to other popular and mainstream trends. The feeling was, "oh, I've seen this before, and it was done better there."

Dahj herself seems cliched. A Blade Runner replicant + Marvel's Black Widow. I'd be more impressed if they didn't rely on mainstream action-tropes. But I think the writers and producers were trying to appeal to what's popular at the moment, and superheroes are very popular. So it's like we've got Deckard's Rachel and Wonder Woman in one character.

From a writing standpoint, they're giving audiences something that we've already seen plenty of times. In addition, she's shown fighting and killing characters like nothing. Okay, she's "activated" is the reason. But you have Elnor dispatching people in a similar fashion. It's not that scene by itself but that in conjunction with other scenes and how they treat violence.

 

[Lord Garth]

Blade Runner is my favorite film of all-time. That having been said, I don't think it needs to be the Final Word on synthetic people who look like flesh-and-blood. Data was on a quest to become more Human. His "children" are actually achieving something he never did. If Picard were following Blade Runner's exact plot beat-by-beat, I'd have a problem with it. But it's not, so I don't.