Star Trek Picard is not Star Trek

[serabine]

Or perhaps it’s as simple as people having a different opinion than yours.

Unpossible!

It is the children who are wrong!

 

[Raptor_Fawr]

Can I be completely honest for a moment?
If it wasn't for the smoking and vaping, I'd probably enjoy Picard. Sure there are other elements I have some problems with, but I could live with that if we didn't have a cigar chomping captain and a vaping....whatever Raffi does... as two of the main characters.

I am 100% aware that that's a "Me Problem" I'm mentally ill (I'm serious, I actually am, I spent the last four years in an out of mental institutions), nicotine smoke is a very bad trigger for me due to my personal history and I can especially not abide it on TV or in Movies (especially not in a SciFi setting. If it was set in historical times, maybe), that's why I can't enjoy the show.

Form what I've managed to watch (and form what I've followed through friends who watch and through reading here), the Show isn't half bad. I don't have any problems with the Federation being portrayed as flawed, I don't have any problems with a person in the future living in trailer (it seemed like that's where she wanted to live,and hey, nice big trailer in the desert without any noisy neighbors, doesn't look that bad or poor to me...), I don't have any problem with Picard being called "JL" (it seemed natural considering their relationship and Raffi's personality, Beverly and Deanna both called Picard "Jean-Luc") I don't have any problem with what happened to Icheb or how it happened (or how Seven reacted to it, that was actually quite badass honestly and understandable) and I think that Elnor is pretty interesting and had a hella cool design (in general I think this show is doing a lot of good for Romulans) I even think that a "fall of the Utopia" is a natural point to take the Franchise after the Dominion War. Utopia is easier to achieve than to maintain.
I still think it's Star Trek, arguably quite a more in line with the 90s shows than Discovery and maybe even Enterprise was. Even in TNG they showed that Starfleet can be shady and that there was a sort of sketchy underbelly to Federation society, the only difference it that the show dives into that like neither TNG nor DS9 could because their characters were still Starfleet.
And honestly Picard isn't even *that* dark. Sure there's bad and unsettling stuff happening, but some people act like it's Battle Star Galactica... which it really isn't

I just can't enjoy the show for very personal reasons. I'm not saying the show runners are bad or evil for including smoking in their show. They have the right. I do think it's unnecessary and that their "justifications" are boolpoop, but they have the right to include whatever they want in their show.

Anyway, sorry for the rant. Just wanted to get that off my chest because it's been there since I tried watching Picard and just to make clear that I'm not a "hater" and don't decry Picard as "not Star Trek" I just have very personal, reasons why I don't like it.

In TNG data smokes too, and not only on the holodeck...

 

[Raptor_Fawr]

I must say, the positivity for this show I'm seeing on these forums is really bizarre. It isn't at all what I would expect from watching the show itself. I can only make sense of it by assuming there's a level of self-selection bias here. STD and STP are pretty much the main considerations for subscribing to CBS All Access so this forum primarily consists of people who like the show enough to pay to watch it. The nay-sayers are people who are just committed to seeing it through or, like me, simply know someone with a CBS All Access account. That could explain why youtubers who claim to be old school Star Trek fans reviewing the show seem to hate it because their semi-obligated to watch and review it to provide content for their channels. My favorite example is RedLetterMedia. Their Picard reviews should be at the top of this list: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJ_TJFLc25JSmtBkyIYqgD5KabbU57yzY. They have some Discovery reviews as well.

I see people defending this show by pretending it's par for the course by making all sorts of faulty comparisons to the previous series and misrepresenting the nature of the backlash they received. I suspect there are also some people who don't care if a story is properly set up, adheres to any sort of internal logic, has consistent characterization, etc. If the writers want us to accept something that happens on screen, however contrived, that's good enough for them.

Good start, very bad conclusion.
Your logic is wrong

 

[ThreeEdgedSword]

If PIC is a trigger for @Orphalesion, then that's what it is. Health is more important than a tv show.

If it was just about the "message" they sent, I would argue that vaping, drinking etc. are portrayed as negative and addictive. (Although they didn't do a very good job in ep 6).

 

[Dix]

We saw gore on Next Generation on TV

We did?

...and there were plenty of darker episodes.

There were?

But this is the same Picard that we saw in Best of Both Worlds and The Inner Light.

Good that you mentioned The Inner Light. One would imagine a show about Picard would be something along those lines. Exploring the historical, psychological, even spiritual dimensions of the character and of his influence. Inner Light was a good "Picard" episode. This show on the other hand is dealing with a myriad of different things, with Picard being almost a supporting role in his "own show".

He's on the same sort of quest.

I'd say he's off course by hundreds of light years.

Discovery is Star Trek. [...]

Let's say you're right, and STD really is a Star Trek series (yes, I know it's called Star Trek, I'm however not convinced, or fooled, if you like), why is it called "Discovery"? What is it they are discovering?

but to claim that it is somehow not Star Trek when it's done nothing that other series haven't done is ridiculous.

Like, for example, having characters saying "fuck" every now and then for no reason but to just utter some profanity? Yeah, that is so Star Trek.

I must say, the positivity for this show I'm seeing on these forums is really bizarre. It isn't at all what I would expect from watching the show itself. I can only make sense of it by assuming there's a level of self-selection bias here.

I see people defending this show by pretending it's par for the course by making all sorts of faulty comparisons to the previous series and misrepresenting the nature of the backlash they received. I suspect there are also some people who don't care if a story is properly set up, adheres to any sort of internal logic, has consistent characterization, etc. If the writers want us to accept something that happens on screen, however contrived, that's good enough for them.

I share the view.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Like, for example, having characters saying "fuck" every now and then for no reason but to just utter some profanity? Yeah, that is so Star Trek.

It was said twice in one episode, how exactly does 23rd century people swearing make it not Star Trek?

 

[Campe]

The idea that colorful metaphors will ever go away entirely is silly.

 

[DaveyNY]

Yes, I lurk more these days tho...

SO, you've mellowed like a fine wine with age?

 

[Krandor]

I must say, the positivity for this show I'm seeing on these forums is really bizarre. It isn't at all what I would expect from watching the show itself. I can only make sense of it by assuming there's a level of self-selection bias here. STD and STP are pretty much the main considerations for subscribing to CBS All Access so this forum primarily consists of people who like the show enough to pay to watch it. The nay-sayers are people who are just committed to seeing it through or, like me, simply know someone with a CBS All Access account. That could explain why youtubers who claim to be old school Star Trek fans reviewing the show seem to hate it because their semi-obligated to watch and review it to provide content for their channels. My favorite example is RedLetterMedia. Their Picard reviews should be at the top of this list: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJ_TJFLc25JSmtBkyIYqgD5KabbU57yzY. They have some Discovery reviews as well.

I see people defending this show by pretending it's par for the course by making all sorts of faulty comparisons to the previous series and misrepresenting the nature of the backlash they received. I suspect there are also some people who don't care if a story is properly set up, adheres to any sort of internal logic, has consistent characterization, etc. If the writers want us to accept something that happens on screen, however contrived, that's good enough for them.

the reason youtubers hate on Trek and wars and doctor who is because they have learned they get more clicks that way.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

We did?

There were?

Multiple examples of both of those have been posted throughout this thread. Either argue the examples or don't, but don't try to pretend no examples have been given. It's disingenuous at best and doesn't even remotely come across as an argument in good faith.

 

[Dix]

The idea that colorful metaphors will ever go away entirely is silly.

The idea that words like fuck and shit will be part of the vernacular in, like, 300 hundred years from now is absolutely silly.

 

[Dix]

the reason youtubers hate on Trek and wars and doctor who is because they have learned they get more clicks that way.

I guess that explains the other negative criticism and reviews of Picard (and also of the STD) at IMDb, for example. And there's a ton of it. What do they have to gain? Clicks too?

 

[Agony_Boothb]

The idea that words like fuck and shit will be part of the vernacular in, like, 300 hundred years from now is absolutely silly.

Modern english probably wont be around in 300 years but considering that most swear words can be traced back at least 600 years there is a good chance that modern swear words or variations of them will be.

 

[Krandor]

I guess that explains the other negative criticism and reviews of Picard (and also of the STD) at IMDb, for example. And there's a ton of it. What do they have to gain? Clicks too?

of course there are people who don’t like it. There are also people who decided it was bad before they watched it. The youtubers though are not proof or an example of anything.

You dislike it. There fine. I love it which is fine too.

 

[Turtletrekker]

The idea that words like fuck and shit will be part of the vernacular in, like, 300 hundred years from now is absolutely silly.

The word fuck, or variations thereof, has been around since approximately the year 1475 it has shown no sign of slowing down. I wouldn't be surprised if by the cusp of the 25th century if it weren't considered a proper noun.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuck

Shit's origins go back even farther, being of old English origin, circa 5-7th century. Nope, it's not going anywhere either.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shit

 

[Campe]

The idea that words like fuck and shit will be part of the vernacular in, like, 300 hundred years from now is absolutely silly.

Lol... no. Both words have been around for centuries.

 

[SolarisOne]

The idea that words like fuck and shit will be part of the vernacular in, like, 300 hundred years from now is absolutely silly.

Because "fuck" hasn't already been around for almost 600 years already?

 

[Raptor_Fawr]

The idea that words like fuck and shit will be part of the vernacular in, like, 300 hundred years from now is absolutely silly.

Fuck and shit were used 500 years ago as well so yeah.

I learned some months ago that there are reports of medieval soldiers swearing the same way we swear today

 

[Raptor_Fawr]

We did?



There were?



Good that you mentioned The Inner Light. One would imagine a show about Picard would be something along those lines. Exploring the historical, psychological, even spiritual dimensions of the character and of his influence. Inner Light was a good "Picard" episode. This show on the other hand is dealing with a myriad of different things, with Picard being almost a supporting role in his "own show".



I'd say he's off course by hundreds of light years.



Let's say you're right, and STD really is a Star Trek series (yes, I know it's called Star Trek, I'm however not convinced, or fooled, if you like), why is it called "Discovery"? What is it they are discovering?



Like, for example, having characters saying "fuck" every now and then for no reason but to just utter some profanity? Yeah, that is so Star Trek.



I share the view.

This post clearly shows that you haven't checked this thread carefully, bascially every point has already been discussed

 

[Raptor_Fawr]

It's so fun to see how many people have this romanticized way to remember trek episodes...

It happens to not remember what we don't like about old shows, or to idolatrize old actors and the old cinema and television

If you don't remember the instances where old trek was gore and not about science and explorations then it's time for a rewatch of TOS and TNG.

Maybe you will learn a thing or two about your favuorite show AND you will shut up about the new trek not being trek.

Because if you don't like it you just have to not watch it. There already are 80 episodes of TOS and 180 episodes of TNG that you can masturbate on