Revisisting "Revisiting TOS"

[Warped9]

Season 1

***** Excellent (16 episodes = 55.1%)
“Where No Man Has Gone Before"
“The Corbomite Maneuver”
“The Enemy Within”
“The Naked Time”
“Balance Of Terror”
“What Are Little Girls Made Of?”
“Dagger Of The Mind”
“The Galileo Seven”
“Court Martial”
“Shore Leave"
“Arena”
“Tomorrow Is Yesterday”
“A Taste Of Armageddon”
“Space Seed”
“Errand Of Mercy”
“The City On The Edge Of Forever”

**** Good (8 episodes = 27.5%)
“The Man Trap”
“Charlie X”
“The Menagerie” (Part I)
“The Menagerie” (Part II)
“The Squire Of Gothos”
“This Side Of Paradise”
“The Devil In The Dark”
“Operation—Annihilate”

*** Fair (5 episodes = 17.2%)
“Mudd’s Women”
“Miri”
“The Conscience Of The King”
“The Alternative Factor”
“The Return Of The Archons”

** Poor (0 episodes = 0%)

* Bad (0 episodes = 0%)


Season 2

***** Excellent (6 episodes = 23%)
“Amok Time”
“The Doomsday Machine”
“Mirror, Mirror”
“Journey To Babel”
“Return To Tomorrow”
“The Ultimate Computer”

**** Good (10 episodes = 38.4%)
“Metamorphosis”
“Who Mourns For Adonais?”
“The Changeling”
“The Deadly Years”
“The Trouble With Tribbles”
“Bread And Circuses”
“A Private Little War”
“Obsession”
“The Immunity Syndrome”
“The Omega Glory”

*** Fair (7 episodes = 26.9%)
“Catspaw”
“Friday’s Child”
“Wolf In The Fold”
“The Gamesters Of Triskelion”
“By Any Other Name”
“Patterns Of Force”
“Assignment: Earth”

** Poor (3 episodes = 11.5%)
“The Apple”
“I, Mudd”
“A Piece Of The Action”

* Bad (0 episodes = 0%)


Season 3

***** Excellent (4 episodes = 16.6%)
“Elaan Of Troyius”
“The Enterprise Incident”
“Is There In Truth No Beauty?”
“The Tholian Web”

**** Good (8 episodes = 33.3%)
“Spectre Of The Gun”
“The Empath”
“Day Of The Dove”
“Plato’s Stepchildren”
“That Which Survives”
“The Cloud Minders”
“The Way To Eden”
“Requiem For Methuselah”

*** Fair (6 episodes = 25%)
“The Paradise Syndrome”
“For The World Is Hollow And I Have Touched The Sky”
“Let That Be Your Last Battlefield”
“The Lights Of Zetar”
“The Savage Curtain”
“All Our Yesterdays”

** Poor (3 episodes = 12.5%)
“Spock’s Brain”
“The Mark Of Gideon”
“Turnabout Intruder”

* Bad (3 episodes = 12.5%)
“And The Children Shall Lead”
“Wink Of An Eye”
“Whom Gods Destroy”

 

[Spectre Of The Fun]

There are more first-rate episodes in the first season of TOS than in all the other series combined.

Which is of course the reason that there got to be other series.

This comment should be immortalized it's that spot on.

Bad (3 episodes = 12.5%)
“And The Children Shall Lead”
“Wink Of An Eye”
“Whom Gods Destroy

I love the thought and effort you put into this. Respectfully I disagree in your poor selections as I quite like Wink and Gods.

But then I appreciate Kathie Browne's campy dialogue in Wink. Stuff like "come Captain it's time to leave your pretty ship." Gods has a great performance from Shatner when he could have mailed it in. Fantastic.

 

[Raptor_Fawr]

Seasonal comparisons (based on how I rated them).

Good to Excellent - TNG never really gets close to TOS in terms of batting average here.
TNG Season 1 = 16% (4 episodes)
TNG Season 2 = 40.9% (9 episodes)
TNG Season 3 = 42.3% (11 episodes)
TNG Season 4 = 42.3% (11 episodes)
TNG Season 5 = 34.6% (9 episodes)
TNG Season 6 = 30.7% (8 episodes)
TNG Season 7 = 15.3% (4 episodes)
TOS Season 1 = 82.7% (24 episodes)
TOS Season 2 = 61.5% (16 episodes)
TOS Season 3 = 50% (12 episodes)

Fair - TNG picks up here where it loses in the better ratings. Whether that's win or lose is a matter of perspective. The closest equivalent is TNG's Season 4 with TOS' Seasons 2 and 3. In terms of numbers in any given season then it's pretty damned close.
TNG Season 1 = 36% (9 episodes)
TNG Season 2 = 22.7% (5 episodes)
TNG Season 3 = 30.7% (8 episodes)
TNG Season 4 = 26.9% (7 episodes)
TNG Season 5 = 34.6% (9 episodes)
TNG Season 6 = 34.6% (9 episodes)
TNG Season 7 = 34.6% (9 episodes)
TOS Season 1 = 17.2% (5 episodes)
TOS Season 2 = 26.9% (7 episodes)
TOS Season 3 = 25% (6 episodes)

Poor to Bad - The closest comparison is TNG's Season 3 with TOS' Season 3, but throughout the rest TNG has a poorer batting average.
TNG Season 1 = 48% (12 episodes)
TNG Season 2 = 36.3% (8 episodes)
TNG Season 3 = 26.9% (7 episodes)
TNG Season 4 = 30.7% (8 episodes)
TNG Season 5 = 30.7% (8 episodes)
TNG Season 6 = 34.6% (9 episodes)
TNG Season 7 = 50% (13 episodes)
TOS Season 1 = 0% (0 episodes)
TOS Season 2 = 11.5% (3 episodes)
TOS Season 3 = 25% (6 episodes

Of course, one can argue that TNG ran longer than TOS and so the odds for more Fair-Poor-Bad episodes was likely greater. But even if you compare only the first three or four seasons of TNG with TOS then TOS still has a better batting average.


Series comparisons:
Good to Excellent - TNG produced more than twice as many episodes as TOS and yet the difference in the number of quality episodes is negligible.
TNG = 31.4% (56 episodes)
TOS = 65.8% (52 episodes)

Fair - With a longer production run it's understandable TNG would have greater odds for putting out more average episodes.
TNG = 31.4% (56 episodes)
TOS = 22.7% (18 episodes)

Poor to Bad - TNG had more than twice as many episodes and more than three times as many disappointments.
TNG = 37% (66 episodes)
TOS = 11.3% (9 episodes)


TOS certainly doesn't follow the "one third" results of my TNG revisit where I found about one third of the episodes Good-Excellent, one third Fair and one third Poor-Bad. For TOS I find nearly two thirds of the series to be Good-Excellent, a bit less than a quarter of it Fair and a little more than a tenth of it to be Poor-Bad.

I would love to have your "Good to excellent" list of both to better compare your point of view to mine.

Beside the fact that everything is subjective (if you don't like old stuff you could argue that both TOS and TNG have zero good episodes for instance) I could think of 60 to 80 TNG episodes I'd rewatch while my list for TOS would never have more than 30, yet you say that 50 of them are excellent... That's why I want to compare

 

[Raptor_Fawr]

Season 1

***** Excellent (16 episodes = 55.1%)
“Where No Man Has Gone Before"
“The Corbomite Maneuver”
“The Enemy Within”
“The Naked Time”
“Balance Of Terror”
“What Are Little Girls Made Of?”
“Dagger Of The Mind”
“The Galileo Seven”
“Court Martial”
“Shore Leave"
“Arena”
“Tomorrow Is Yesterday”
“A Taste Of Armageddon”
“Space Seed”
“Errand Of Mercy”
“The City On The Edge Of Forever”

**** Good (8 episodes = 27.5%)
“The Man Trap”
“Charlie X”
“The Menagerie” (Part I)
“The Menagerie” (Part II)
“The Squire Of Gothos”
“This Side Of Paradise”
“The Devil In The Dark”
“Operation—Annihilate”

*** Fair (5 episodes = 17.2%)
“Mudd’s Women”
“Miri”
“The Conscience Of The King”
“The Alternative Factor”
“The Return Of The Archons”

** Poor (0 episodes = 0%)

* Bad (0 episodes = 0%)


Season 2

***** Excellent (6 episodes = 23%)
“Amok Time”
“The Doomsday Machine”
“Mirror, Mirror”
“Journey To Babel”
“Return To Tomorrow”
“The Ultimate Computer”

**** Good (10 episodes = 38.4%)
“Metamorphosis”
“Who Mourns For Adonais?”
“The Changeling”
“The Deadly Years”
“The Trouble With Tribbles”
“Bread And Circuses”
“A Private Little War”
“Obsession”
“The Immunity Syndrome”
“The Omega Glory”

*** Fair (7 episodes = 26.9%)
“Catspaw”
“Friday’s Child”
“Wolf In The Fold”
“The Gamesters Of Triskelion”
“By Any Other Name”
“Patterns Of Force”
“Assignment: Earth”

** Poor (3 episodes = 11.5%)
“The Apple”
“I, Mudd”
“A Piece Of The Action”

* Bad (0 episodes = 0%)


Season 3

***** Excellent (4 episodes = 16.6%)
“Elaan Of Troyius”
“The Enterprise Incident”
“Is There In Truth No Beauty?”
“The Tholian Web”

**** Good (8 episodes = 33.3%)
“Spectre Of The Gun”
“The Empath”
“Day Of The Dove”
“Plato’s Stepchildren”
“That Which Survives”
“The Cloud Minders”
“The Way To Eden”
“Requiem For Methuselah”

*** Fair (6 episodes = 25%)
“The Paradise Syndrome”
“For The World Is Hollow And I Have Touched The Sky”
“Let That Be Your Last Battlefield”
“The Lights Of Zetar”
“The Savage Curtain”
“All Our Yesterdays”

** Poor (3 episodes = 12.5%)
“Spock’s Brain”
“The Mark Of Gideon”
“Turnabout Intruder”

* Bad (3 episodes = 12.5%)
“And The Children Shall Lead”
“Wink Of An Eye”
“Whom Gods Destroy”

Now I have it thanks haha

 

[1001001]

 

[johnnybear]

Plato's Stepchildren is in the good section???
JB

 

[Warped9]

Plato's Stepchildren is in the good section???
JB

I have my reasons. My review is somewhere toward the end of the 58 pages of the original thread (linked in my first post of this thread).

 

[johnnybear]

HaHaHa No probs, Warped! It's just not a particular favourite of mine but I'm glad you like it!
JB

 

[Warped9]

The biggest issue I hear regarding “Plato’s Stepchildren” is how our heroes are brutalized and humiliated. It’s too disturbing.

It’s supposed to be distrurbing. We’re supposed to be upset seeing good people wilfully tormented by narcissistic and petty people with unlimited power bullying others without repercussion just because they can.

“Plato’s Stepchildren” not only shows us absolute power corrupting absolutely, but their telekinetic powers are a metaphor for the unseen forces wielded on people today by powerful individuals high up in far off offices somewhere.

 

[Raptor_Fawr]

Personally I dislike when in scifi the aliens have telecinetic powers, I tend to not take seriuosly that kind of stuff because it's too overused and TOS alone have 1/3 of the episodes where those kind of powers are involved in some way

 

[Warped9]

Telekinetic abilities have long been associated with highly evolved beings. Indeed one could make a case that many superheroes, like Superman, actually have telekinetic abilities to do some of what they do.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Gods has a great performance from Shatner when he could have mailed it in. Fantastic.

I sometimes feel Shatner was carrying the load the whole final year. Or, maybe HE felt he was. He put in 120% effort every week. Some other shows with great actors in the lead would coast when their show hit the skids (I'm looking at you Richard Basehart), but Shatner gave it his all. Every. Damned. Week.

 

[Winterwind]

The biggest issue I hear regarding “Plato’s Stepchildren” is how our heroes are brutalized and humiliated. It’s too disturbing.

It’s supposed to be distrurbing. We’re supposed to be upset seeing good people wilfully tormented by narcissistic and petty people with unlimited power bullying others without repercussion just because they can.

“Plato’s Stepchildren” not only shows us absolute power corrupting absolutely, but their telekinetic powers are a metaphor for the unseen forces wielded on people today by powerful individuals high up in far off offices somewhere.

That's how I've always viewed the episode too.

 

[Armus]

Plato's Stepchildren is underrated and so is Turnabout Intruder. I find both episodes well-acted and highly entertaining.

 

[Warped9]

“Plato’s Stepchildren” is not something I really understood when I was really young yet I still kind of liked it i(hey, it was Star Trek). But passing years lent me a different perspective to see things I had not seen before, As a result I look upon it much more favourably.

And I also find it still very relevant today.

 

[Mytran]

I (fairly) recently completed a 79 week long project on this board of watching one episode per week, in production order.
It surprised me how strongly the third season opened - there's some well written, well produced stories there!
As the season wore on though, the strain of production became apparent as many story concepts with good potential seemed to be underdeveloped at the time they were committed to film, which is a shame.
Still, TOS rarely failed to entertain!

 

[johnnybear]

“Plato’s Stepchildren” not only shows us absolute power corrupting absolutely, but their telekinetic powers are a metaphor for the unseen forces wielded on people today by powerful individuals high up in far off offices somewhere.

We have to resist and defy these evil 'people' if we're able and never forget the wheel turns and our day will come!
JB

 

[LizStargaryen]

I go with

1. TOS
1a. DS9
3. ENT
4. DISC
5. Picard
6. TNG
7. VOY

This is my ranking of the series as well. Glad I'm not the only one.

 

[Qonundrum]

Disclaimer: List is subject to change... often after just one tiny sip of coffee.

Season 1

Excellent:
“Where No Man Has Gone Before"
“The Enemy Within”
“The Naked Time”
“Balance Of Terror”
“Dagger Of The Mind”
“Court Martial”
“Tomorrow Is Yesterday”
“A Taste Of Armageddon”
“Space Seed”
“Errand Of Mercy”
“The City On The Edge Of Forever”

Good:
“The Man Trap”
“The Corbomite Maneuver”
“Charlie X”
“The Menagerie” (Part I)
“The Menagerie” (Part II)
“The Squire Of Gothos”
“This Side Of Paradise”
“The Devil In The Dark”
“Mudd’s Women”

Fair:
“The Conscience Of The King”
“Operation—Annihilate”
“The Galileo Seven”
“Shore Leave"
“Arena”

Poor:
“Miri”
“The Return Of The Archons”

Bad:
“The Alternative Factor”
“What Are Little Girls Made Of?”

Season 2:

Excellent:
“Amok Time”
“The Doomsday Machine”
“Journey To Babel”
“The Ultimate Computer”
“The Immunity Syndrome”

Good:
“Mirror, Mirror”
“Who Mourns For Adonais?”
“The Changeling”
“The Trouble With Tribbles”
“Bread And Circuses”
“A Private Little War”
“Obsession”
“The Omega Glory”
“Friday’s Child”
“Wolf In The Fold”
“The Gamesters Of Triskelion”
“By Any Other Name”


Fair:
“Patterns Of Force”
“Return To Tomorrow”
“Metamorphosis”
“The Deadly Years”

Poor:
“I, Mudd”
“Catspaw”
“Assignment: Earth”

Bad:
“The Apple”
“A Piece Of The Action”



Season 3

Excellent:
“The Enterprise Incident”
“Is There In Truth No Beauty?”
“The Tholian Web”
“Day Of The Dove”
“Plato’s Stepchildren”

Good:
“Elaan Of Troyius”
“Spectre Of The Gun”
“That Which Survives”
“The Cloud Minders”
“The Way To Eden”
“Requiem For Methuselah”
“The Paradise Syndrome”
“For The World Is Hollow And I Have Touched The Sky”
“All Our Yesterdays”
“Wink Of An Eye”

Fair:
“Let That Be Your Last Battlefield”
“The Lights Of Zetar”

Poor:
“The Mark Of Gideon”
“Turnabout Intruder”

Bad:
“And The Children Shall Lead”
“Whom Gods Destroy”
“The Empath”
“Spock’s Brain”
“The Savage Curtain”

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

There are more first-rate episodes in the first season of TOS than in all the other series combined.

Which is of course the reason that there got to be other series.

Agreed. I recall reading a Discovery writer say that Disco had the best first season since TOS... and I'm like no, not even close.