Star Trek Picard is not Star Trek

[Alexander Corrino]

Sounds like a case of confirmation bias to me, remembering only those aspects/facts that support a persons argument and blocking out those that don't.

Yup. It "doesn't count" that TNG had a guy's head explode (which was largely because Jean-Luc himself was like "SCREW TRYING TO ESTABLISH COMMUNICATION LIKE WE USUALLY DO, LET'S GET THIS ONE FULL BLAST" - but suuure, Jean-Luc is a total pacifist who never picks up a phaser, according to those same people) because PIC's violence just HAS to be violence we have never seen on any Trek show before.

Pardon my language but...

WHAT DA FUQ!

That makes no sense...Star Trek needs to be more like old Trek which means you can't bring up old Trek examples of what new Trek is doing and I...I...

*implodes*

My reaction exactly. I'm so glad I wasn't the one who was stuck in that argument. It must have been like talking to a brick wall.

 

[Campe]

Pardon my language but...

WHAT DA FUQ!

That makes no sense...Star Trek needs to be more like old Trek which means you can't bring up old Trek examples of what new Trek is doing and I...I...

*implodes*

 

[XCV330]

Yup. It "doesn't count" that TNG had a guy's head explode (which was largely because Jean-Luc himself was like "SCREW TRYING TO ESTABLISH COMMUNICATION LIKE WE USUALLY DO, LET'S GET THIS ONE FULL BLAST" - but suuure, Jean-Luc is a total pacifist who never picks up a phaser, according to those same people)

Yep. And just because ..

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time for some good ole TNG dust buster violence

 

[Aragorn]

Sounds like a case of confirmation bias to me, remembering only those aspects/facts that support a persons argument and blocking out those that don't.

I stumbled across Robert Meyer Burnett's YouTube channel while looking up stuff about Picard. He's exactly like that. Never going back there, that's for sure.

 

[The_Baroness]

Isn't the entire point of Picard the fact that he quit Starfleet in disgust at how it was (his words) "no longer Starfleet"

Starfleet and by extension the federation have lost their way, and the main character has stayed true to his beliefs and walked because of it...

So to say it's not Star Trek when the hero has sacrificed everything for federation principles is laughable.

 

[Kor]

Yup. It "doesn't count" that TNG had a guy's head explode (which was largely because Jean-Luc himself was like "SCREW TRYING TO ESTABLISH COMMUNICATION LIKE WE USUALLY DO, LET'S GET THIS ONE FULL BLAST" - but suuure, Jean-Luc is a total pacifist who never picks up a phaser, according to those same people) because PIC's violence just HAS to be violence we have never seen on any Trek show before.



My reaction exactly. I'm so glad I wasn't the one who was stuck in that argument. It must have been like talking to a brick wall.

I remember reading somewhere that Remmick's gruesome demise was Roddenberry's way of thumbing his nose at the censors who were extremely uptight about the slightest hint of sexuality, but didn't have much to say about violence. I can't remember where I read that, though.

Kor

 

[BillJ]

Starfleet and by extension the federation have lost their way, and the main character has stayed true to his beliefs and walked because of it...

Was it that? Or did he have a fit because he lost a political battle and bet the only chip he had, his career.

I like the show, but I'm still struggling with this version of Picard who would just up and quit when billions of lives were at stake.

 

[Gonzo]

Was it that? Or did he have a fit because he lost a political battle and bet the only chip he had, his career.

I like the show, but I'm still struggling with this version of Picard who would just up and quit when billions of lives were at stake.

I think he was out of options and so he threatened to press the big red button expecting Starfleet to fold.

They didn't.

It also served to confirm his worst fears about what Starfleet and the Federation had become, I don't think he could fool himself anymore.

Without Starfleet and the Federation the rescue plan was dead in the water, its not just about the need for ships, its about finding planets who are willing to take 900 million refugees, having the spare resources to feed, clothe and house them.

Just imagine the extra bog rolls and porta loo's that would be required.

It was a tall order before the attack on Mars, it may be that many were just looking for an excuse to say no.

 

[Silanda]

I have a pet theory, dating back to the Reboot Wars of 2009, that a lot of the opposition to the current Trek shows and movies comes not from us old-school TOS fans but from the folks who grew up on 90s-era Trek and who see TNG as the gold standard to which all past and present Trek shows must be be compared.

Mind you, my evidence is entirely anecdotal.

This has also been my pet theory since seeing the reaction from some fans since 2009. Thing is, I get the feeling that what some people are using as that gold standard is an imagined perfect version of TNG rather than the show in its entirety, and they ignore, consciously or not, anything in the TNG era shows that doesn't fit with that imagined standard (as well as TOS in general). My evidence is also anecdotal though.

 

[donners22]

I've seriously seen people use the argument of "Don't tell me 'this was done before on Star Trek' - that doesn't count! If you don't have any better arguments than THAT, you don't deserve to discuss this!!!"

I literally sat there like ""?

I can't help but laugh at the Voyager fans going berserk at Icheb's fate - how it's a "slap in the face to Voyager" and shows the writers hate "real Trek".

Apparently they've forgotten, or are carefully ignoring, how Voyager treated Joe Carey and Kes...

 

[Alexander Corrino]

This has also been my pet theory since seeing the reaction from some fans since 2009. Thing is, I get the feeling that what some people are using as that gold standard is an imagined perfect version of TNG rather than the show in its entirety, and they ignore, consciously or not, anything in the TNG era shows that doesn't fit with that imagined standard (as well as TOS in general). My evidence is also anecdotal though.

I agree with this, too. I'm a HUGE fan of TNG and yet it disturbs me to see people elevate it to an almost god-like status while at the same time claiming "Picard is ruined, TNG is ruined, and therefore my childhood is now also ruined". It's a case of "too much nostalgia", IMO. They remember watching TNG as kids or teens, and they're more invested in re-capturing the FEELINGS they had when they watched TNG than the show itself - that's why everything TNG did is perfect and everything that Trek does now is horrible and wrong. The fact that PIC doesn't bring those feelings back because it's so different from TNG and yet features its captain (who is now also different) is very, very upsetting to them.

I used to be sad that I didn't grow up with TNG (I was a kid when it aired but I had no interest in it), but nowadays I'm actually GLAD I didn't and that I was 18/19 when I saw TNG for the first time - old enough to fall in love with the show (and its captain in particular) but also to recognize the flaws. I wouldn't want for nostalgia to take over my rational thoughts.

 

[BillJ]

I think he was out of options and so he threatened to press the big red button expecting Starfleet to fold.

They didn't.

It also served to confirm his worst fears about what Starfleet and the Federation had become, I don't think he could fool himself anymore.

Without Starfleet and the Federation the rescue plan was dead in the water, its not just about the need for ships, its about finding planets who are willing to take 900 million refugees, having the spare resources to feed, clothe and house them.

Just imagine the extra bog rolls and porta loo's that would be required.

It was a tall order before the attack on Mars, it may be that many were just looking for an excuse to say no.

See, I just don't buy the idea that his thoughts were that because he couldn't save everyone, he would just go home and save no one. From his position, he should have had quite a bit of capital built up, either capital he could have used in Starfleet or became the public face for the plight of the Romulan refugees who were handed a death sentence due to no fault of their own.

I get the idea that the writers want to make Starfleet and the Federation look bad, a mirror for what is going on today. I don't buy that Picard would've washed his hands entirely of the situation to go home and hide. That just isn't the character we watched for 178 episodes and four movies.

 

[AlanC9]

What, exactly, should he have been doing?

 

[Gonzo]

See, I just don't buy the idea that his thoughts were that because he couldn't save everyone, he would just go home and save no one. From his position, he should have had quite a bit of capital built up, either capital he could have used in Starfleet or became the public face for the plight of the Romulan refugees who were handed a death sentence due to no fault of their own.

I get the idea that the writers want to make Starfleet and the Federation look bad, a mirror for what is going on today. I don't buy that Picard would've washed his hands entirely of the situation to go home and hide. That just isn't the character we watched for 178 episodes and four movies.

Its highly likely that he spent all that capital getting the project green lit in the first place, I think he knew that he was all tapped out but went in anyway to try and save it, never thinking for a second that Starfleet would actually abandon the Romulans to their fate, no doubt he felt abandoned as well.

It must have hit him like a freight train.

He was a busted flush, he called Starfleets bluff and unfortunately they were not bluffing, he knew what that meant, he was done and his supporters had switched.

I can understand why the Federation and Starfleet shut it down as I am sure there were many who didn't want it to happen in the first place (as Picard himself states), the question that we are left with is a simple one, was it the intention of whoever attacked Mars to stop the rescue or was that just collateral damage.

 

[AlanC9]

I suppose they could have done a bunch of clips of Picard trying various things only to have them not work. Sort of like a stereotypical training montage, except that what Picard's learning is failure.

 

[Racefuel]

See, I just don't buy the idea that his thoughts were that because he couldn't save everyone, he would just go home and save no one. From his position, he should have had quite a bit of capital built up, either capital he could have used in Starfleet or became the public face for the plight of the Romulan refugees who were handed a death sentence due to no fault of their own.

I get the idea that the writers want to make Starfleet and the Federation look bad, a mirror for what is going on today. I don't buy that Picard would've washed his hands entirely of the situation to go home and hide. That just isn't the character we watched for 178 episodes and four movies.

It's because it's not the character that you saw for 178 episodes and four movies, it's a character that was convinced of his own personal capital and went "all in" by saying either they accept his plan or accept his resignation.

He was banking on them cherishing the beloved Jean Luc Picard to the point where they'd sacrifice virtually everything to keep him, including several planets, ships, etc...after losing 50,000 people on the Mars attack.

As it turns out, one man only has so much capital, and they called his bluff. Barring trying to instigate a Federation Civil War and mutiny within Starfleet...there wasn't anything else he could do.

 

[SolarisOne]

He was banking on them cherishing the beloved Jean Luc Picard to the point where they'd sacrifice virtually everything to keep him, including several planets, ships, etc...after losing 50,000 people on the Mars attack.

The sheer fucking hubris of it all.

 

[thribs]

The latest episode felt like a Star Trek episode to me. There’s still hope.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The latest episode felt like a Star Trek episode to me. There’s still hope.

Must have been all the fanwank.

 

[thribs]

Must have been all the fanwank.

I did like seeing the Enterprise E but I did like the episode as well.