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Gonzo
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Alas Political agenda's always end up muddying the water to such an extent that no one can see anything anymore.
Picard: "Just Like Other Sci-Fi"
- Thread starter Danny99
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The point I'm trying to make is simple: what you know about Star Trek should be learned from Star Trek. The fact that there are examples of these types of reprisals are behaviors that need to be addressed, and sometimes can't be done in a simple manner.
The mythology of what Star Trek "IS AND REPRESENTS" rarely ever matches what was actually depicted on the screen.
Indeed. It's a word that gets tossed about as though Star Trek isn't exploring the consequences of actions.
Well, I don't protest, but I've watched it and I didn't like the way they handled Seven's revenge. While in case of Jadzia, Khan or Sisko, they reflected a lot about the senselessness of revenge, now they showed it like Picard would be wrong with his opinion about the worth of revenge. I really hope, that this reflection will follow in Seven's next appearence.
I stated this elsewhere, but upon watching it I don't think we are supposed to like it-I think it is supposed to be shocking, emotional and visceral.
I don't need Seven mulling over her actions Shakespeare style ("Out damn spot!") to know its wrong.
I don't need Seven mulling over her actions Shakespeare style ("Out damn spot!") to know its wrong.
Correct - the intent was to provide Seven with a justification for her violent behavior, quickly and efficiently.
Deaths in themselves isn't what I take issue with, it's that our main characters are the ones doing the unnecessary murdering. Charlie was an unhinged boy-god who was clearly the bad guy, the example of what not to be. A salt monster...clearly the bad guy. Crew members taken over by a powerful entity are not our heroes.
The equivalent would be Kirk, Spock, or McCoy going out of their way to seek revenge on someone who has wronged them and murdering anyone in their path. A bit worse yet, leading up to this rampage the shows fanfare swells leading us to believe this is supposed to be a noble act. Again... just such an odd direction to take the character. Fine to have her wrong and jaded, odd to have Picard talk her out of revenge only to have her turn around go all in.
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Kirk killing Kruge for revenge in ST:3? Dax participating in a revenge pact?
Again, I don't need the show to tell me its bad.
Again, I don't need the show to tell me its bad.
I think that Seven's behavior isn't about just being edgy, it has a thematic point...it's meant as a contrast to Picard.
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Gonzo
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Yeah, not everyone has their own Chateau they can retire to, it even has its own winery ensuring that sobriety is kept to an absolute minimum at all times.
Everything in the show is a contrast to Picard from what I have seen.
It begs the question as to what they plan for the end of the season, will it be a race to the bottom or a high note.
That did not happen...
So, Kirk kicking him while going "I...have had enough of you!" didn't happen? None of that involved emotion around his son David?
I'm sure it involved emotion. And it was directly preceded by Kirk trying to save Kruge despite everything he had done, and Kruge responding by trying to kill Kirk. It was pure self defence and it is very disingenuous to try paint it as revenge.So, Kirk kicking him while going "I...have had enough of you!" didn't happen? None of that involved emotion around his son David?
Both actions - Kirk's and Jadzia's missions - had its consequences. (And as long these will be shown in Seven's case, too, I'm still ok with it.)
I think it was complicated but I don't think revenge if off the table. Especially in light of TUC.
What were Jadzia's consequences? Sisko gave her a dirty look and...?
You'd want Hawk to give you a dirty look?
If you met both my mom and my history teacher you would understand why some dirty looks don't carry quite as much weight as others
Even this is more that anything Seven got so far. And don't forget: The Context is King. In Jadzia's case there were enough other scenes where Jadzia also struggled with the idea of the revenge (especially after the revenge). In Seven's case, we have a main char, that didn't struggle with this until now or had any consequences. And this is not the way, the Trek universe did work in former shows. So, like in the case of some similiar acts by Archer, I just want to see something more than a Seven, that now has to be "immoral", just to let Picard shine a bit more.
He literally tells Kruge when he's hanging off the cliff, to "Give me your hand!"
It's only when Kruge then uses that mercy to try and kill him by grabbing his ankle to pull him over the edge, that Kirk finally reaches the limits of mercy/patience.
I'd also point out Kirk's reaction to his own "let them die," said in anger to Spock in TUC... He visibly recoils after saying it.
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