Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x05 - "Stardust City Rag"

[Tuskin38]

Star Trek: Picard. Hope is dead, murder anyone you want, say any foul thing you want to, screw it all. After this episode, I felt something that I thought I'd never feel while watching a Star Trek show.

Clearly you haven't been paying attention, that isn't the lesson of the show at all.

• Personal theory: "Oh" is actually NOT a ROmulan in disguise, but a proper VULCAN - who's in on the conspiracy and thus working together with the Zhat Vash (and not the Tal'Shiar).

• Possibility: If "Oh" is a Vulcan, she mind-controlled Agnes Jurati into doing those things

Spoiler

Well in a December trailer we do see someone that might be Oh going in for a mind meld on Agnes

Is it the first time they showed that Borg implants are considered so valuable? Or is it something that they already established in past series/movies?

Voyager did one or two episodes on it.

I'm not happy that Icheb or Maddock got recasted

Well the actor who played Icheb was probably blacklisted after defending Kevin Spacey. Considering one of his victims was another Star Trek actor, I'd hope so.

As for the actor who plays Maddox, I don't think he's acting anymore.

Maddox is a bit of a head-scratcher but there must be some reason for it.

He doesn't seem to be acting anymore, but teaching.

Spoiler: You'll likely get your wish

IMDB confirms Jeri Ryan as being in six episodes this season; the two we've seen, and the last four. It's not likely that these are credits-only appearances since she is not defined as a series regualr, IIRC.

IMDb isn't always accurate. Remember it can be edited by anyone.

 

[Cpt. Kyle Amasov]

Maybe it's Seven of Nine and Bjayzl that needs a novel...

I'm pretty sure a novel about Seven's adventures with the Fenris Rangers is already in the pipeline.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Isn't that basically what this "relationship" with Bjayzl was? Out of nowhere? She doesn't even remotely seem like the type of person Seven would get close to.

She acted differently a long time back and Seven would have been more naive and trusting. She was an easy mark for someone like Bjayzl. Ichab's death propels her on a dark track to blowing the Bjesus out of Bjayzl.

 

[Xerxes82]

When I say "purpose" I'm referring to the writers, not the characters. I understand why Seven of Nine killed the gang leader in-universe. What I don't understand is what the meaning of the episode is, from the perspective of the writers. Again, it's such a straightforward plot: there's a gang of one-dimensional crazy murderers. Seven shoots the leader in revenge. There's nothing else to it as far as I can see. The violence isn't used to tell us anything about the characters involved (there's nothing to learn about the gang leader because she's a caricature who exists just to get killed, and it doesn't say anything new or interesting about Seven IMO), nor is it commented or reflected upon in any way (unlike the beheading in the previous episode, where I enjoyed Picard's short rant afterwards), and so I'm left feeling like the story isn't actually saying anything. The violence is there to make things feel more Dark™, which seems to be a preoccupation of this series so far.

I feel like it was thematic. This is not the Federation, or indeed the galaxy that we remember from TNG. It has changed, and not for the better. The very things that once made Picard a "great" man, his morals, his sense of righteousness, his almost boundless faith in humanity and the ideals of the Federation have become almost anachronistic. This is a a cruel, harsh universe. A place not of utopian ideals but of pragmatic, often morally compromised solutions. Seven is used as counterpoint to Picard. Somebody who has faced the same failures, the same kind of heartbreaking loss. But where it has challenged his faith, buried it, it has shattered hers.

Put another way, Seven has changed with the universe around her. Picard is still trying to change it instead. At the heart of this episode is the core idea that this faithless, dangerous galaxy devours everyone it touches. Seven, Raffi, even Jurati (who wishes she didn't know whatever it is she knows). But so far it hasn't devoured Picard. In spite of everything he's been through, some by his own doing, he still somehow clings to that faith. He's damaged but not broken.

At the end of the day, I feel like that's sort of the pillar they've built the show on. Will the universe finally break Picard, or can he find a way to bend it back towards optimism and hope in some small way. Can you be a righteous man in unrighteous times?

 

[Tracer Bullet]

He doesn't seem to be acting anymore, but teaching.

Sure, but it seems like they didn’t even ask him, per the story about someone asking him about it and him being surprised.

 

[fireproof78]

Sure, but it seems like they didn’t even ask him, per the story about someone asking him about it and him being surprised.

Someone else mentioned (I think in the General Thread) that his SAG might not be up to date which would impact his ability to work in Hollywood.

 

[Cyrus]

So some clarity on the main story line:

The Mars attack is a conspiracy that involves Romulans/Tal Shiar and Federation (section31?). Raffi has figured out some of this.

Soji and Dahj were created to figure out this mystery. One was sent to Earth, the other to the artifact.

The conspirators are trying to kill them and also find out if there are more of them (reason why they are not killed immediately).

commodore Oh is one of the conspirators and successfully brainwashed Dr Jurati.

 

[Yistaan]

commodore Oh is one of the conspirators and successfully brainwashed Dr Jurati.

Why didn't Oh just brainwash Picard? As Chief of Starfleet Security, she could have invited him for a meeting, feigning to take his claims seriously, then force a mind meld on him and he'd be screaming "Hail the Zhat Vash!" in less than 5 minutes.

 

[eschaton]

It is kinda a shame they bothered to introduce Elnor last week and did absolutely zero with him this week.

Seriously, they could have flipped the episode order and no one would have known.

 

[Cap'n Calhoun]

Some may allow youngers to watch it. I preview everything first.

I get what you're saying, but pre-screening doesn't help as much when you're an adult who is uncomfortable with this sort of thing. Anyway, I won't keep harping on it.

Incidentally, I keep thinking it would be handy for parents (and others like myself who are a little more sensitive) if anyone was interested in making "Parents guide" threads for modern Star Trek episodes. Common Sense Media and IMDb are helpful, but I'm sure there are plenty who would appreciate episode-by-episode guides to the modern "more mature" Treks if anyone's interested in doing it. Just a thought.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Why didn't Oh just brainwash Picard? As Chief of Starfleet Security, she could have invited him for a meeting, feigning to take his claims seriously, then force a mind meld on him and he'd be screaming "Hail the Zhat Vash!" in less than 5 minutes.

I don't think Agnes Jurati was "Brain Washed". I think she was shown a horrible vision of the future based on her work on Fully Sentient / Sapient Androids like Data. And some sort of potential Apocalyptic future that she is responsible for in her field that includes AI.

I think she was convinced by Commodore Oh to help prevent the coming apocalypse by working with / for her and her goals.

 

[fireproof78]

I get what you're saying, but pre-screening doesn't help as much when you're an adult who is uncomfortable with this sort of thing. Anyway, I won't keep harping on it.

Incidentally, I keep thinking it would be handy for parents (and others like myself who are a little more sensitive) if anyone was interested in making "Parents guide" threads for modern Star Trek episodes. Common Sense Media and IMDb are helpful, but I'm sure there are plenty who would appreciate episode-by-episode guides to the modern "more mature" Treks if anyone's interested in doing it. Just a thought.

And that's why I am on boards like this. I give precisely zero chits about spoilers and it is helpful to have another perspective for people who (like yourself) are more sensitive.

Would have liked that for the Witcher...grotesque series at times. However, I do like your idea. But, that tries to account for people are sensitive to the same thing. As I stated before, would we put similar ratings on Conspiracy, Star Trek III or Star Trek VI?

 

[Yistaan]

I don't think Agnes Jurati was "Brain Washed". I think she was shown a horrible vision of the future based on her work on Fully Sentient / Sapient Androids like Data. And some sort of potential Apocalyptic future that she is responsible for in her field that includes AI.

I think she was convinced by Commodore Oh to help prevent the coming apocalypse by working with / for her and her goals.

So we're going back to the old sci-fi troupe of "kill you for something you haven't done yet?" Wouldn't she at least explain that to Maddox before killing him? Unless Maddox is responsible for an already occurred crime like the synth attack or the supernova.

The question still stands of why Oh didn't just tell Picard this horrible secret to get him on her side.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Why didn't Oh just brainwash Picard? As Chief of Starfleet Security, she could have invited him for a meeting, feigning to take his claims seriously, then force a mind meld on him and he'd be screaming "Hail the Zhat Vash!" in less than 5 minutes.

He's shared minds with Sarek and played Professor X--she'd be way out of her league.

 

[Yistaan]

He's shared minds with Sarek and played Professor X--she'd be way out of her league.

That irumodic syndrome would make him easy prey.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

So we're going back to the old sci-fi troupe of "kill you for something you haven't done yet?" Wouldn't she at least explain that to Maddox before killing him? Unless Maddox is responsible for an already occurred crime like the synth attack or the supernova.

The question still stands of why Oh didn't just tell Picard this horrible secret to get him on her side.

That's what the evidence is leading me to conclude to.

Agnes Jurati was probably convinced that Maddox was one of those unstoppable dreamers, who will stop at nothing to accomplish his goals, and Oh was probably right about that, given the success of Dhaj / Soji.

Picard is a boundless idealist, it shows in his StarFleet Record and his behavior. I think Oh made a judgement call based on what she knows about him and thinks he can't be turned to her side. At that point, Picard is considered an obstacle and liability.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Do you suppose the cookie recipe will be a clue to how Maddox made Dahj and all? Folks have been focused on replicating the end product in re-creating Data. He may have had some breakthrough where Song went about artificially recreating his own genetic code as a step to starting those Data's from a techno-womb of some sort or even incubated in a real one? He might have even been inspired through the work that created Kahn.

 

[AlanC9]

So we're going back to the old sci-fi troupe of "kill you for something you haven't done yet?" Wouldn't she at least explain that to Maddox before killing him? Unless Maddox is responsible for an already occurred crime like the synth attack or the supernova.

The question still stands of why Oh didn't just tell Picard this horrible secret to get him on her side.

Until we know what the secret is, we can't discuss this very profitably. It could be that Picard wouldn't go along with her preferred course of action even if he knew the secret.

 

[AlanC9]

Do you suppose the cookie recipe will be a clue to how Maddox made Dahj and all? Folks have been focused on replicating the end product in re-creating Data. He may have had some breakthrough where Song went about artificially recreating his own genetic code as a step to starting those Data's from a techno-womb of some sort or even incubated in a real one? He might have even been inspired through the work that created Kahn.

This went right past me, but I like the idea.

 

[Aragorn]

I don't understand the big deal with the recasts in this episode. Were people this upset back when Alexander and Ziyal were recast? The latter was recast twice!