Spoilers Starship Design in Star Trek: Picard

[fireproof78]

I think Discovery is a show that people would have a hard time connecting to TOS

I mean, I don't, but I'm weird.

Which is why so many people lean so hard on those "facts" and writer's intent when discussions about the show pop up.

Eh, I think writer's intent is an important part of interpretation of any work. So, I think that people lean on it because it is important part of literary interpretation, not just "It's prime because they say so!" argumentation. Largely because art doesn't exist within a vacuum. There is cultural influences, but there is also what the author wanted to convey in the medium that they did.

Do they honestly think that if writers now aren't respecting the intent of what came before

I honestly don't think writers have ever respected what came before in any different way than now. So, I don't have an issue with it since this is clearly apart of ongoing franchises and has been part of Star Trek since TMP and TNG.

 

[El Maestro]

All of this is fine for you I guess, if it makes you feel better, but when the people creating Star Trek keep making new Star Trek they will use the official position that anything not Kelvin takes place in the same universe/timeline/continuity. Fans can head canon/fanfic/interpret all they want but as the franchise moves forward it will be under the shared assumptions that are "official" whether they are good or not.

 

[Noname Given]

Exactly. The Romulans could have made the BoP for 50 years, 75 years after Balance Of Terror. Minor changes to the nacelles are easily explained by the ship being a later model, or maybe the new "owner" did an upgrade.

It was nice to see the old bird again, even if it did get it's wing clipped.

You didn't watch TOS did you? By 2268 (See: TOS S3 - "The Enterprise Incident" - Spock: "Intelligence reports Romulans now using Klingon design..." (See the scene where a Klingon D7 Battlecruiser appears on screen.)

 

[Nerys Myk]

You didn't wath TOS did you? By 2268 (See: TOS S3 - "The Enterprise Incident" - Spock: "Intelligence reports Romulans now using Klingon design..." (See the scene where a Klingon D7 Battlecruiser appears on screen.)

IIRC, the TOS-R version changed one of the ships to a BOP.

 

[BillJ]

You didn't wath TOS did you? By 2268 (See: TOS S3 - "The Enterprise Incident" - Spock: "Intelligence reports Romulans now using Klingon design..." (See the scene where a Klingon D7 Battlecruiser appears on screen.)

Nifty how that coincided with them only having to build one new model for "The Enterprise Incident" and "Elaan of Troyius".

 

[Nerys Myk]

You didn't wath TOS did you? By 2268 (See: TOS S3 - "The Enterprise Incident" - Spock: "Intelligence reports Romulans now using Klingon design..." (See the scene where a Klingon D7 Battlecruiser appears on screen.)

IIRC, the TOS-R version changed one of the ships to a BOP.

 

[Noname Given]

IIRC, the TOS-R version changed one of the ships to a BOP.

Okay - so now you know WHERE the BoP in STP Ep. 4 came from...

 

[BillJ]

I mean, I don't, but I'm weird.

Watching "The Vulcan Hello" without them telling me it was a prequel to TOS? I would've never guessed that was what it was supposed to be.

 

[Noname Given]

Nifty how that coincided with them only having to build one new model for "The Enterprise Incident" and "Elaan of Troyius".

TOS Producer: "HEY! That model cost A LOT of money...USE IT!"

 

[WarpFactorZ]

Watching "The Vulcan Hello" without them telling me it was a prequel to TOS? I would've never guessed that was what it was supposed to be.

Except when Burnham's introductory monologue gives both the stardate and calendar date:

Stardate 1207.3.
On Earth, it's May 11, 2256, a Sunday.

But aside from that, what would have taken to convince you that it was set before TOS? Serious question.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

You didn't wath TOS did you? By 2268 (See: TOS S3 - "The Enterprise Incident" - Spock: "Intelligence reports Romulans now using Klingon design..." (See the scene where a Klingon D7 Battlecruiser appears on screen.)

Watched? Yes. Remembered that line? No. And I think it was more theory that Romulan designs were used by the Klingons.

 

[Tuskin38]

So DSC and PIC are in a close parallel universe to TOS, or
FC created ENT, DSC and the changes in TOS??

They're in the same timeline as TOS. Not a close or altered timeline, the same timeline.

 

[BillJ]

Except when Burnham's introductory monologue gives both the stardate and calendar date:


But aside from that, what would have taken to convince you that it was set before TOS? Serious question.

That it play in a way that makes the era seem familiar. And no, I'm not talking about going back to the 60's way of making TV. I'm talking about uniforms and ships that would've seemed a bit more appropriate for the era, Klingons that reminded me of what came before, especially where technology and look went. The show very much felt like you could've erased the date off of it and it would've fit in perfectly post-Nemesis.

But, for the casual viewer, that date would've meant very little.

 

[BillJ]

They're in the same timeline as TOS. Not a close or altered timeline, the same timeline.

Until someone higher up says they aren't. Much like how the TOS gang didn't want Spock to have a sibling. Now he does. Another ten years, he may not again.

Which is why the appeal to a higher authority doesn't work out. All they can do is tell you their intent now. That intent may not stay in place for long, and is usually ditched once one staff is fired and another brought in.

 

[Noname Given]

Until someone higher up says they aren't. Much like how the TOS gang didn't want Spock to have a sibling. Now he does. Another ten years, he may not again.

Um...what's the feature film "Star Trek V: The Final Frontier" (from 1989 - 20 year post TOS where we find out Spock has a sibling) have to do with ST: D??!!

 

[Racefuel]

Keep in mind that they address, more or less, the fact that Spock wasn't known to have a brother in ST:V...

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[fireproof78]

Watching "The Vulcan Hello" without them telling me it was a prequel to TOS? I would've never guessed that was what it was supposed to be.

Right away, no. But, watching the show-yes. The inclusion of Sarek in particular was a good indication and following along the context of the show became very clear.

 

[Tuskin38]

Also remember this is the same guy that didn't tell Kirk that Amanda and Sarek were his parents (but wouldn't that be in his Service Record?)

 

[WarpFactorZ]

Until someone higher up says they aren't. Much like how the TOS gang didn't want Spock to have a sibling. Now he does. Another ten years, he may not again.

Introducing new characters or enhancing their backstory isn't the same as saying something is in a completely different timeline. And we've been over Spock's lack of familial candor numerous times. He never mentioned his dad was Ambassador to Earth until Sarek was there, he never mentioned T'Pring and Pon Farr until he couldn't avoid it, he never mentioned he had close ties to T'Pau (same reason), etc... So, it's not a stretch to believe that he never mentioned his disgraced half-brother nor his Klingon-War-startin-thousand-years-in-the-future-adopted-sister.

 

[BillJ]

Introducing new characters or enhancing their backstory isn't the same as saying something is in a completely different timeline.

If we're applying what the writers say as "facts", then, according to Dorothy Fontana, Spock has no siblings. Or are what the writers say are facts, only facts if we agree with them?