Not for hundreds of years.
Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x03 - "The End is the Beginning"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
Fantastic episode. I’m noticing that certain professional critics are ribbing the series for “moving at one-quarter impulse.” I’d kindly request that they go back and watch a few hours of TNG again.
Can anyone tell me what the heck the deal was with the rumor that Janeway appears in this episode? It always sounded a bit suspect but I finally bought into it last night only to be disappointed by the ruse.
Or am I blind...?
Can anyone tell me what the heck the deal was with the rumor that Janeway appears in this episode? It always sounded a bit suspect but I finally bought into it last night only to be disappointed by the ruse.
Or am I blind...?
Don't Believe Everything You Read On The Internet ???
Wow - and folks kept claiming ST: D was riding on fan nostalgia.wow this was so much better than last week and that engage moment
This one gets a 5 from me and, I'm being VERY generous here.
It was at about the same level as last weeks for me - and 3 episodes in, the whole thing really seems to be dragging and A LOT of character motivations and set ups her just don't make sense. To date the majority of the show is setup to allow Patrick Stewart to chew a lot of scenery, and for a 10 episode story they sure seem to cover a lot of the same ground OVER and OVER just to give Patrick Stewart more dialogue to spew.
I don't have an issue with Mr. Stewart's acting at all, but when all this re-going over slows the story's pace/progression to a slog...
What they took 3 episodes to do could have been better done in two. But we got what we got.
As to my comment about WTF character motivations:
Picard himself:
- From the previous episode we know he's absolutely gung ho about finding Daj's twin clone synth. he's so gung ho he gets his friend and former CMO of the Stargazer to falsify his certificate for space duty; then sets up a meeting with the CINC of Star Fleet in an attempt to get reinstated and get a ship and crew for his personal quest and she (IMO rightly) effectively tells him to go f**k himself.
We also find out Riker , Geordi and Worf are all still alive, and (he believes) would help him in a heartbeat, BUT he WON'T ask them because he doesn't want to risk thne lives of people he actually cares about (and honestly that's a but new for him, but okay). It's also why he WON'T take his two Tal Shiar caretakers even though they probably are (again as seen in this third episode) the ONLY ONES really able to protect him from the other Romulans he'll be facing. Thus he takes out an old Star Fleet Comm Bade, taps it (supposedly for the first time in 14 years) - and (IMO with what we find out in the third episode) AMAZINGLY gets an actual answer...
(and this in what nostalgic TNG fans call "great writing"??)^^^
And I call his decisions and motivation here ridiculous because with how he ultimately does it in the third episode he's setting himself up for failure - and I have to wonder if deep down - he's ready and hoping to die, and the only people he'll take with him are those he cares absolutely NOTHING about (which again is new for him). but sorry, that's how this all comes across to me.
So now, on to more of the actual third episode itself and what I see as WTF character motivations:
Raffi Musiker: Seriously WTF is she doing even speaking to Picard in the first place? (Not to mention that somehow she has the Commbadge that Picard's is linked to IN EARSHOT after 14 years??!!
No, seriously...
) <-- Again, this is 'good writing'?Her history with Picard (as shown in the episode) seems to be that she was assisting him with the Romulan Evacuation Project; and after the Mars attack when Picard hears Star Fleet wants to back out - she (as his assigned Adjutant from all appearances) comes up with solutions to present for the reasons she expects them to present; and he does so. Picard comes out of the meeting and after a long stretch of dialogue; we find out what we're already been shown a number of times already in the previous two episodes - Star Fleet said "No", and accepted (to Picard's own surprise <--- Which does in fact show how full of himself he's always been, so nothing new here either) his resignation.
Now, WHY the CINC decides to call her in (again, she was just his assigned Adjutant, following the orders and requests of a higher ranking superior - IE She came up with all the plans to continue AT THE REQUEST OF PICARD for that meeting where, until he resigned, he was still a full Admiral) and fire/dismiss/drum her out of Star Fleet...WHY? I mean there's no scene where SHE goes to the CINC beforehand and goes "WTH? Why did you accept Picard's resignation??!!" -- nope. Picard resigns, and she's called in and discharged. <--- And it effectively destroyed her life to the point where she's living in a Trailer at Vasquez Rocks.
So, yeah, THIS is what she blames Picard for - yet after 14 years (during which time Picard has never once talked to her/come to see her before now) she allows him (telling him to please leave about once every 30 seconds), while she by her actual actions and other responses - showing she'll do whatever he asks - and further - even after being kick out of Star Fleet - is somehow keenly interested that Romulans are operating on Earth covertly; and arranges contact for Picard with the Captain of an Unregistered ship. Also, while she lives in a trailer and has been brooding over the last 14 years -- she has full and complete 24th cntury internet access (Something Picard seems to lack at his high end Chateau); and after telling him to go and never come back, she STILL does all this research on Maddox and figures out where to find him in about 5 minutes.
(Yep, GREAT plotting/writing/completely understandable character motivations here...oh, wait...)Then after ALL THAT - she decides to come along too...
^^^
And here's the thing...yes, in later episodes they could expand on her motivations - but instead of giving us more backstory on Raffi and giving the audience at least ONE actual solid reason why (after 14 years of 'ghosting' by Picard) she WOULD still help him - we mostly get a repeat, restatement that "Yes, Star Fleet cancelled the Rescue Project; and yes, Picard threatened to resign hoping that 'threat' would change Star Fleet's collective mind, which it didn't, and he was left reeling with the fact they accepted his resignation and thus "Star Fleet was no longer Star Fleet"-- only this time he was in uniform.)
Comadore Oh: (AKA - the most incompetent Romulan Collaborator/Plant on Earth). She goes to visit Agnes Jurati, finds out first hand what Agnes told Picard; THEN decides to get another Romulan hit squad to take Picard out (Which of course fails because of his two caretakers and Agnes herself showing up just in time to save everyone and relates that Commodore Oh came to see her and Agnes told her everything because Oh is the head of Star Fleet security and probably already know everything. Problem is: I guess Oh doesn't bother to maintain continued surveillance on Agnes Jurati; and her hit squad has a member that's SO %$#@! incompetent, he spills useful info AND THEN decide to commit suicide (Here's a hint - If you're a member of a cabal sworn to secrecy and plan to commit suicide when caught - it's probably better to do it BEFORE you talk...
(Again, MORE 'great writing' deserving of 8's, 9', and 10's from some people...) And yeah, if Oh's Romulan Teams are so good at cleaning up messes to the point that after a MASSIVE explosion near a Star Fleet facility, neither the local police nor any other Str Fleet leaders are all that concerned...why not take out Agnes Jurati too, and first? I mean hell Oh seems to believe she'll take out Picard and no one will bat much of an eye.And then there's what the Romulan Assassin says: "You have no idea what she (Dahj) was..."; and further that "We'll find the twin before you..." -- Again, WTF??!! Commodore Oh ALREADY KNOWS where the other twin is; and is working with another Romulan plant (Rizzo), and knows what Rizzo is doing to extract some sort of info that the 'Bad Guys' want/need... (again 'great writing'??!!)
Cristóbal "Chris" Rios: He's 'Ex-Star Fleet' and comes across as just being in it "for the money" (oh BTW - when did Earth go back to using 'Money' again? I thought that no longer existed on Earth in the 24th century <--- A fact cited in numerous TNG episodes and ST:FC) - and I get that from Raffi's comm (when she comes to say she's coming) comment of "I don't know how much he's charging you..." and Cristóbal's reply of "I'm VERY expensive" -- although they never jhad any scene betwe); yet Picard when he comes aboard notes: "Everything is stowed neatly per Star Fleet regulations/protocols...meaning somehow he's still a Star Fleet officer at heart I guess. And sorry, I don't get the distinction between Holograms with very complete A.I. that can handle tools and ship controls (there's a line that intimates the EMH can handle Navigation and other ship duties too) and 'Synths' - IE the EMH is software based as well, has the capacity to attack/injure/kill in hacked (and any software can be hacked) - yet EMH's and other similar A.I.'s are still okay (IE not banned), just synths...Yeah again 'great writing' here). But, said EMH (who seems to be a mirror of Cristóbal's personality, is geeking out that he's helping Picard; and wondering if the Captain is too -- and Cristóbal seems very laid back about going into Romulan space. IDK - pretty pat (IMO).
Plus, it's truly amazing how incompotent Commadore Oh, Star Fleet, and general Earth security is, in that Picard can just beam back and for from an unlicesed, unregistered ship in Earth orbit. You'd think with how common space travel is; near Earth space would be tightly monitored and controlled by someone.
Hell, in the end, I DON'T see why Commadore Oh couldn't openly and legally arrest BOTH Picard and Agnes Jurati as she was passing Picard CLASSIFIED information (Yes, he WAS a Star Fleet Admiral, but not for the last 14 years he hasn't been; and put them in a cell until their plan (which everyone agrees needs to be finished with ASAP) is completed.
And lastly - Wow, that Borg Cube must be REALLY close to Earth given that Rizzo (I forget her actual Romulan name if they've ever stated it) - can travel from Earth to it in a couple of days. (But to be fair EVERY Star Trek story in existence has suffered from 'speed of plot' travel times but this seems a real quick trip, even for Trek).
I love a good mystery; but when you set it up, the character motivations and actions should make sense with what you've presented and doing stuff just because "Hey, I like this scene and who's in it", or we need some action here because if not, there's too much 'just talking' should be avoided. Also, you Villains and their agents shouldn't be shown as soooooooooo incompetent out of the gate just one episode after being introduced.
So yeah, I gotta say, anyone giving this episode a high rating must be doing so based on the absolute nostalgia of:
- Patrick Stewart walking around and acting the hell out of every scene he's in (and occasionally chewing some of the scenery
)- Picard being back in space on a ship and getting to deliver his classic version of: "Engage!"
- The BGM (Background Music) in the final scene that was so chock full of TNG music cues (plus the going to warp sound effects); you might actually mistake Cristóbal "Chris" Rios ship for the Galaxy Class 1701-D if you weren't looking at your TV/Monitor screen (or just closed your eyes fpor those few seconds).
It certainly would NOT be because the characters, setup and overall plot is so tightly/well written - because it ain't.
So yeah, a VERY GENEROUS 5/10 from me for this one. (YMMV)
G
Gonzo
Guest
Well we may even see the light on the show, depending on whether the places Picard intends to visit are closer or further away from Romulus, if closer its certainly possible they could find themselves in just the right spot to see it if the show runners want us to.A weird, seemingly unnatural supernova and 15 plus years later...
It certainly wouldn't be out of the ordinary for Trek to fudge with the natural sciences and make this possible.
Could it trigger Soji if she sees it I wonder.
I don’t. :P
I get that it’s supposed to try to make the characters more relatable, but it’s weird in comparison to the slightly formalized language past shows have used.
Odd. Many complained that DISCO moved along to fast for them to keep up. But, having recently watched the likes of For All Mankind, Altered Carbon and most other genre TV that's on, as far as I can tell, Picard is moving along at a decent clip. I'm suspecting they figured Picard would be off Earth at warp speed by the end of the first 40 minutes.
don't quote me if you want to spew your negative garbage that's completely unrelated to what i said
Oh yeah, has anyone mentioned that sinister mom was even more sinister this time? No question now that she's up to something.
Sluggish as TNG could be, at no point did it take more than two hours to get through the first act.
Sluggish as TNG could be, at no point did it take more than two hours to get through the first act.
This is a very different Trek.
^This
It's impossible. Romulans are wired weirdly. It's part of their ancient secret about why they hate AI. Romulans are booby trapped, so that if their brain is networked, that network (the cube) is going to crash. Unfortunately they fry themselves in the process. Sad.
A weird, seemingly unnatural supernova and 15 plus years later...
It certainly wouldn't be out of the ordinary for Trek to fudge with the natural sciences and make this possible.
1. a radiation wave travelling at lightspeed, is quick enough that a colony world 15 light years away, is going to be fried in 15 years. There are maybe doozens or hundreds of colony worlds to the core systems, a decade or three from Romulus.
2. FTL magic imaginary science could be shitting deadly FTL junk out into space when the star blows up, so all those hundreds of worlds in the dozens of core systems to the Star Empire, are going to fragged within weeks to months instead of years.
3. Before Spock turned the the super nova into a time nova, Star Fleet didn't know that that star would be shitting temporal shenanigans across the star empire, which made everything way more confusing than facing just instant death.
G
Gonzo
Guest
Really the pacing seems fine to me, they could have just jumped into episode one with Picard on the ship but then they would still have had to show us how he got there in flashback.
In any case they cant hang around as its only 10 episodes, plus I could watch Laris and Zhaban beating up members of their own race all day long.
With respect, I asked if anyone knew the source of a rumor I encountered numerous times. These answers, while cute, are not doing much to give me what I was looking for. If y’all don’t know, fair.
If slow-moving Trek isn't to their liking then I hope they don't go back and rewatch big chunks of Berman Era Trek or TMP. There are episodes of TNG that seem to take forever even for Riker to do something with one of his legs.
Well, since there is no Janeway in any of the first three episodes, then the source of those rumors must have been someone's ass.
Since Romulans live as long as Vulcans; how about a younger Laris as a secret Romulan operative in the Section 31 series. Remember in the Mirror Universe, The Empress had probably already made incursions into Romulan space - so unlike her 23rd century prime universe counterparts; she might be able to coax a Tal Shiar member in the Prime Universe 23rd century to work for her.
It actually is not theoretical: It is a basic conclusion of the relevant sciences. If the mass a body orbits remains the same, the orbit will not change. The Earth's orbit would remain as it was before and after the collapse of our sun into a black hole; Romulus' orbit would likewise stay the same.
Moreover, if you are going to conclude that the proposed transformation of the Romulan homeworld's star into a black role via red matter delivered by Spock was going to destroy Romulus. you have to ignore the stated belief of Spock that his plan would have saved the planet from destruction. He did not tell the Kelvin timeline's Kirk that his plan worked but destroyed Romulus; he told Kirk that the Romulan homeworld's star exploded before he could implement a plan that he believed could work.
If you want to believe that authorities in- and out-universe are wrong--most importantly, that Spock was wrong in his stated belief that his described plan would save Romulus from destruction--this is a choice. I would suggest it is not a wise choice.
Again, the structural problem with the show to me seems to be it's doing one thing too fast (background character motivation and exposition) and another thing too slowly (plot development).
There's so many things in this episode that were said that didn't really need to be said. About half the dialogue with Raffi and Picard was worthless wheel-spinning. Rios's discussion with his ENH about his captain's brains being splattered against the wall was way, way too early in the season to give away his trauma. Narek's dialogue with his sister didn't accomplish much of anything, and could have been handled with a "silent" scene of some sort, with cuts to their meeting interspersed with dialogue with Soji.
At the same time, the episode had nothing much of interest happen other than that encounter that Soji had with the ex-borg Romulan. That seems like it matters quite a good deal in the future, though we still can't say what it means. Picard's "plot" in contrast, was still all predictable setup.
There's so many things in this episode that were said that didn't really need to be said. About half the dialogue with Raffi and Picard was worthless wheel-spinning. Rios's discussion with his ENH about his captain's brains being splattered against the wall was way, way too early in the season to give away his trauma. Narek's dialogue with his sister didn't accomplish much of anything, and could have been handled with a "silent" scene of some sort, with cuts to their meeting interspersed with dialogue with Soji.
At the same time, the episode had nothing much of interest happen other than that encounter that Soji had with the ex-borg Romulan. That seems like it matters quite a good deal in the future, though we still can't say what it means. Picard's "plot" in contrast, was still all predictable setup.
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