Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x02 - "Maps and Legends"

[KennyB]

It's healthy to provide criticism. After all, it is clear the producers respond to it. Look at Discovery Season 2 and the way it changed after fan reaction.

I also feel it's perfectly fine to have discussion on this, which is why we have forums to begin with.

I just prefer to see all 10 episodes BEFORE I judge that they did not explain this or that......They could very well show in the coming episodes that the Federation bailing on Romulus and their banning of synths were both a part of Picard's ultimatum he delivered when he threatened to resign. We just don't have all the facts yet, so I wait.

 

[B. L.]

Even if they were hacked - and it's known - it's a good reason to ban them (provided they aren't self aware). I mean, it means that if they don't have a decent "firewall" your plastic pal who's fun to be with could turn around and snap your neck in a second. Who wants to deal with that.

I saw no evidence in the short scene that the type of synths shown was self-aware. Just because it looks like a human doesn't mean it has a consciousness - any more than the Horta looking nothing like a human meant that it lacked a consciousness.

Still doesn't explain why Picard allows himself to be baited into that corner by the reporter.

The reporter says, and I quote:

Reporter:
"A group of rogue synthetics dropped the planetary defense shields and hacked Mars's own defense net...92,143 lives were lost, which led to a ban on synthetics."
Picard:
"Yes. We still don't know why the synthetics went rogue and did what they did that day, but I believe the subsequent decision to ban synthetic life forms was a mistake."
Reporter:
"Lt. Cmdr Data, operations officer the Enterprise, was synthetic. Did you ever lose faith in him?"
Picard:
"Never."

First: Semantics. Synthetic life forms. Picard respects all forms of life. If he felt they are indeed life forms, then he would NEVER have condoned the Federation's decision to use them. He'd also be condemning them to this day. His use of the words themselves indicates he believes they are not simply machines, but life forms. So him not even bringing up their misuse is out of character.

Ok, so...IF these synthetics were as you say, just computer systems, and we just go along with Picard viewing them as machines, why doesn't he say something like, "whoa whoa whoa, wait just a minute here. Data was a sentient android, not a synthetic. There's a difference."

I believe this is the part where Picard should have instead of saying "the subsequent decision to ban synthetic life forms was a mistake," to, "the decision to abuse synthetic life forms was a mistake"

So many character holes here.

 

[Yistaan]

Really proliferates the myth that if a woman rejects someone she's a b***.

Ok, please quote where in my post I actually said that. I don't even use that kind of language, but per your post you do (I had to X out your words since you actually write these type of slurs all out). Don't take your words and superimpose them on mine. Do it again, and it will be reported.

Here's what I actually said

And that's fine and understandable and I always got the hint and walked away, and rightfully more and more men are learning that too especially as the misdeeds of MeToo predators come to light and men all around the world take extra care not to remotely be like that.

importantly ...what's needed to protect women

 

[Noname Given]

It's essentially this version of the Star Trek Online Galaxy Map...
(which is the one they had at launch of the game back in 2010)

WARNING: REALLY HUGE IMAGE ...

Yeah - STO has updated it quite a bit in the last 10 years of the game (this is the most current version from the game):

 

[Alexander Corrino]

^^^
Lol - What is it about Sir Patrick Stewart and his role as Picard that always seems to create shots and lines that can be easily co-opted to hilarious internet memes?

He's loving them tho, so it's all fine: Patrick Stewart loves your Picard memes: “I must’ve done something right”

 

[pst]

7: this wasn't an episode, it was a string of scenes. but they were good scenes and i'm all in.

 

[Noname Given]

Still doesn't explain why Picard allows himself to be baited into that corner by the reporter.

The reporter says, and I quote:

Reporter:
"A group of rogue synthetics dropped the planetary defense shields and hacked Mars's own defense net...92,143 lives were lost, which led to a ban on synthetics."
Picard:
"Yes. We still don't know why the synthetics went rogue and did what they did that day, but I believe the subsequent decision to ban synthetic life forms was a mistake."
Reporter:
"Lt. Cmdr Data, operations officer the Enterprise, was synthetic. Did you ever lose faith in him?"
Picard:
"Never."

First: Semantics. Synthetic life forms. Picard respects all forms of life. If they are indeed life forms, then he would NEVER have condoned the Federation's decision to use them. He'd also be condemning them to this day. His use of the words themselves indicates he believes they are not simply machines, but life forms. So him not even bringing up their misuse is out of character.

Ok, so...IF these synthetics were as you say, just computer systems, why doesn't he say something like, "whoa whoa whoa, wait just a minute here. Data was a sentient android, not a synthetic. There's a difference."

I believe this is the part where Picard should have instead of saying "the subsequent decision to ban synthetic life forms was a mistake," to, "the decision to use synthetic life forms was a mistake"

So many character holes here.

The Doctor did in this episode as PIcard was convinicing said Dr. to LIE and certify Picard was fit for deep space duty: Picard's (probably Irumodic) syndrome. As the Dr. said - "Occassional uncontrollable outbursts of anger..."

 

[Yminale]

It's healthy to provide criticism. After all, it is clear the producers respond to it. Look at Discovery Season 2 and the way it changed after fan reaction.

I also feel it's perfectly fine to have discussion on this, which is why we have forums to begin with.

"Fans" wanted Discovery cancelled and de-canonized. They also wanted Burnham to be written out of the show. Writers basically doubled down on all the aspects fans hated. Brought in the Enterprise to link Discovery to TOS and further developed the relationship between Spock and Burnham. Oh and they fixed the Klingon make up. Most likely from request of the actors as the old setup limited their facial movements and not from the "fans"

 

[fireproof78]

Yeah - STO has updated it quite a bit in the last 10 years of the game (this is the most current version from the game):

Pretty.

"Fans" wanted Discovery cancelled and de-canonized. They also wanted Burnham to be written out of the show. Writers basically doubled down on all the aspects fans hated. Brought in the Enterprise to link Discovery to TOS and further developed the relationship between Spock and Burnham. Oh and they fixed the Klingon make up. Most likely from request of the actors as the old setup limited their facial movements and not from the "fans"

Good point. Caving to "fans" and their demands would have involved removing Burnham completely, and probably would have preferred very painfully.

 

[B. L.]

The Doctor did in this episode as PIcard was convinicing said Dr. to LIE and certify Picard was fit for deep space duty: Picard's (probably Irumodic) syndrome. As the Dr. said - "Occassional uncontrollable outbursts of anger..."

get out of jail free card

 

[eschaton]

Mastering human social interaction and having complex motives are not required for sentience. Babies are sentient, gold fish are sentient (or that seems likely given the current scientific understanding.) Sure, the synths could be just automatons, but lacking the qualities you mention doesn't prove that they are nor would possessing them mean that they aren't.

Modern chatbots have not mastered human social interaction. Should we presume - in absence of evidence - they are sentient as well?

First: Semantics. Synthetic life forms. Picard respects all forms of life. If he felt they are indeed life forms, then he would NEVER have condoned the Federation's decision to use them. He'd also be condemning them to this day. His use of the words themselves indicates he believes they are not simply machines, but life forms. So him not even bringing up their misuse is out of character.

Life form does not equal "person" though. I can't recall off the top of my head if Picard personally ever ate un-replicated meat. But it's not like he came down hard on those space Irish from TNG Season 2 for not respecting the freedom of goats and cows.

 

[fireproof78]

get out of jail free card

Or character development. Too soon to tell.

 

[Discofan]

Anyone noticed the funny sign?

"This facility has gone 5843 days without an assimilation"

We see these signs in factories but normally it's about accidents.

 

[B. L.]

Modern chatbots have not mastered human social interaction. Should we presume - in absence of evidence - they are sentient as well?



Life form does not equal "person" though. I can't recall off the top of my head if Picard personally ever ate un-replicated meat. But it's not like he came down hard on those space Irish from TNG Season 2 for not respecting the freedom of goats and cows.

We know he felt bad about the death of the crystalline entity, who was literally eating people and an enemy, and we know he respected exocomps, and we know he respected the possible sentience of his starship, and we know he felt bad about killing a space cow who threatened his ship and its kid, there are probably more i'm missing.

As far as chatbots, it doesn't matter what we think about them. I'm talking about what picard would think of regarding these synths.

 

[rhllot]

I know sometimes Vulcans and Romulans can be difficult to tell apart, but one usually can tell the difference between a Lady and a Gentleman.

Commodore Oh, is the former not the latter.




I have my own favorite to use at work ... Fudge-Buckets ... since I can't swear in the hospital.




Oh man, I love that show.
Would never have even known about it if it weren't for Yt.
Jimmy Carr is one of my favorite modern Comics.

I say that Narek has a brother, not a sister.

 

[Longinus]

Modern chatbots have not mastered human social interaction. Should we presume - in absence of evidence - they are sentient as well?

No. But if we know that sentient androids can exist, then it is perfectly reasonable to assume that an android might be sentient.

 

[Yistaan]

We know he felt bad about the death of the crystalline entity, who was literally eating people and an enemy, and we know he respected exocomps, and we know he respected the possible sentience of his starship, and we know he felt bad about killing a space cow who threatened his ship and its kid, there are probably more i'm missing.

Picard didn't feel too bad about dooming those people Nikolai Rozhenko (Worf's adopted brother) lived with.

 

[Greg Cox]

Why not? We've seen PLENTY of a-hole Vulcans. They are a race of billions, with their own failings, shortcomings, and issues. It's been like that since Valeris in TUC 29 years ago, and it's been shown that way ever since.

They can justify any kind of behavior in the name of "logic.".

Oh, it's been like that since long before Valeris. Heck, the very first full Vulcan we ever saw on STAR TREK, T'Pring in "Amok Time," coolly plotted to get either Kirk or Spock killed just so she could get out of an arranged marriage and play house with someone else, preferably with Spock's holdings and estates. And then there's Sarek, who hid a serious heart condition from his wife AND who stopped speaking to his own son for 18 years just because they disagreed over Spock's career choices. And even Spock admitted that his father was perfectly capable of committing cold-blooded murder if he had a "logical" reason to do so.

The Vulcans have had their issues since TOS. Just because Spock is admirable, that doesn't mean they're all impeccable role models.

 

[Racefuel]

Picard didn't feel too bad about dooming those people Nikolai Rozhenko (Worf's adopted brother) lived with.

There's a difference between stopping a force that is going from planet to planet killing both Federation and non-Federation citizens alike...and violating the Prime Directive to interfere in a species natural course in life.

 

[B. L.]

Picard didn't feel too bad about dooming those people Nikolai Rozhenko (Worf's adopted brother) lived with.

That was the prime directive. I suppose that's just another "Get out of jail free" card for writers to use (and ignore) at their discretion.