Spoilers What's the point of an android with...

[Mojochi]

Soong wasn't concerned with creating an android, he was concerned with creating a mind, and arguably, a life. The Data-style chassis was secondary and probably trivial for the Federation to manufacture. The biological synths appear to be even closer to a human mind than we saw Data to be in some ways.

Your creator went to a lot of trouble to make you seem human. I find that fascinating

Nothing about Data's design is trivial. Sure, the positronic brain was his utmost preoccupation, but that's only because he had so much trouble with it, & faced pretty much everyone telling him it wouldn't work, but everything about Data's design is a fantastic achievement, even more so for Juliana Soong, who was nearly indistinguishable from a human. They all marvel at the complexity of design, that's intention was to create a machine that mimicked our own as much as possible. His goal was to create an artificial humanoid, & yes, the most complex part of that was to create its mind

I mean why would he make the thing capable of dreaming? What need does a computer have for dreaming, except for it to live as we do?

 

[Philip Guyott]

...a human body?

What's the point? Why would Starfleet want to create beings with positronic brains and human bodies in the first place?

Take all the physical durability, strength, speed, no need to sleep or eat and do away with that in favour of a comparatively frail human body as the vessel for this incredible computerised intelligence.

Why?

Scientists get bored just like the rest of us

Possibly, so that if you were dying you could upload your essence into an artificial human body.

 

[Noname Given]

Nothing about Data's design is trivial. Sure, the positronic brain was his utmost preoccupation, but that's only because he had so much trouble with it, & faced pretty much everyone telling him it wouldn't work, but everything about Data's design is a fantastic achievement, even more so for Juliana Soong, who was nearly indistinguishable from a human. They all marvel at the complexity of design, that's intention was to create a machine that mimicked our own as much as possible. His goal was to create an artificial humanoid, & yes, the most complex part of that was to create its mind

I mean why would he make the thing capable of dreaming? What need does a computer have for dreaming, except for it to live as we do?

The one thing that always struck me as crazy given the 24th century tech we were shown was the whole "Dtat is unique and can't be replicated..." bit.

Hell, they had a Transporter accident that replicated Lt. Cmdr. William T. Riker - and Data can be teleported. Plus Data was built using 24th century materials. Are you going to tell me they can't use a Transporter/Replicator scan and an Industrial replicator to mass produce as many 'Data' model copies as want/they need?

Plus, Soong remade his own Wife as a fully functional/virtually indistinguishable from a human being as a fully functional android (IE - He perfected the process) - See TNG S7 - "Inheritance". It's just crazy to me to believe Soong did it "All for himself" - and wouldn't share or archive the procedure anywhere in the known Galaxy.

IDK - the whole "Data is soooo ultimately unique..." bit from TNG and how they loved to overplay it for drama in many an episode is just plain ridiculous given 24th century tech.

 

[Longinus]

Hell, they had a Transporter accident that replicated Lt. Cmdr. William T. Riker - and Data can be teleported. Plus Data was built using 24th century materials. Are you going to tell me they can't use a Transporter/Replicator scan and an Industrial replicator to mass produce as many 'Data' model copies as want/they need?

They can't. Riker copy was a freak accident, there is no indication that they could duplicate it. For all we know there's a parallel universe who is otherwise identical but is missing its Riker. And replicators seem to lack the required fidelity to produce living things, and same would indubitably apply to a machine of equal complexity.

 

[Yminale]

People are missing the obvious answer. To make babies. It boggles the mind that Federation has finally created true life.

 

[Kelso]

The one thing that always struck me as crazy given the 24th century tech we were shown was the whole "Dtat is unique and can't be replicated..." bit.

Especially in a world where you can accidentally create a sentient life form by speaking the wrong command to the holodeck.

 

[Reverend]

I'll let the good Dr. Soong take this one: -

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Creating new life in one's own image is the driving force of all species; it's both why and how they continue to exist. It's also to do with the reason why we can go into a cave in modern day France and see the handprints of humans that have been dead for sixty four millennia; they wanted us to know they existed, they wanted a legacy; a piece of themselves that will live forever.

Sure, we could create machines with much more efficient shapes than our own...but what could we give them exactly? What would a cloud of nano-bots networked with a collective AI that could bend the all the forces of nature to it's will and survive until the heat death of the universe care about us? What would Shakespeare or Mozart matter to such a being? It would merely be a thing made by us, not of us.

 

[Noname Given]

Sure, we could create machines with much more efficient shapes than our own...but what could we give them exactly? What would a cloud of nano-bots networked with a collective AI that could bend the all the forces of nature to it's will and survive until the heat death of the universe care about us?

^^^
Well...they MIGHT want to assimilate and incorporate our biological and technological distinctiveness into their Collective; and may evolve to a point where they believe (and might state in unison) resistance (against this process) is futile...

 

[Reverend]

I really don't think the Borg were "created" in that sense. Their whole thing smacks of post singularity trans-human(oid)isum. A warning against advancement for it's own sake, collectivism at the expense of the individual, and against cultural homogenisation. Indeed, they're so far removed from whatever they once were that they no longer even have a culture of their own.

Indeed rather than being the "best of both worlds" they're the worst. The cold amoral efficiency of machines mixed the the biological need to propagate. They're a virus that infects and consumes civilisations at every level from macro to micro to nano, and they most likely started as just some race that wanted to attain immortality. Which they did at the expense of everything that held any kind of meaning.

 

[CorporalClegg]

The Borg were always first and foremost about corporate imperialism. (i.e. McDonald's popping up all over the world in the 80s.) The cyborg aspects were more about the metaphor than the actual thing - the huge leap forward of the computer age was making the global spread of commerce way more feasible than it had ever been.

**And I might add too that I think the Borg not having and kind of "identity" is sort of the point. The US really doesn't have any sort of identity of its own. We call ourselves the 'melting pot,' but we eulogize the cultural collective through commercialized holidays with trinkets and selling superficially assimulated food.

 

[Noname Given]

The Borg were always first and foremost about corporate imperialism. (i.e. McDonald's popping up all over the world in the 80s.) The cyborg aspects were more about the metaphor than the actual thing - the huge leap forward of the computer age was making the global spread of commerce way more feasible than it had ever been.

Unitil TNG "Best of Both Worlds" and then being further diluted in "Star Trek: First Contact" -- the Borg were akin to a force of nature (like Locusts). They didn't say anything beyond what was minimally required; and they DIDN'T NEGOTIATE...PERIOD!" - They simply scanned your ship/star system; and if they identified it had something they could use...they SWARMED IN EN MASSE and assimilated it, and moved on.
^^^
That's what really made them so scary and interesting in the 24th century TNG universe...here was a Villain you couldn't negotiate with or just give something to to make them go away or postpone a conflict...if you had something they wanted...they just took it.and the ONLY WAY to stop them would be to defeat them; and hope they didn't find something that allowed them to adapt and return toy again.

When they 'humanized' the Borg with "The Borg Queen" aqnd created a character that could be negotiated with and tricked...the Borg just became another Star Trek "Villain of the Week"

 

[fireproof78]

When they 'humanized' the Borg with "The Borg Queen" aqnd created a character that could be negotiated with and tricked...the Borg just became another Star Trek "Villain of the Week"

And that is why I don't really want to see them come back.

 

[Nerys Myk]

What does God need with a human body?

Yeah, didn't work out so well for him the last time. Or maybe it did????

 

[Mojochi]

I still think the best reason to make a humanoid artificial intelligence, is so it can hopefully identify with us enough to be less likely to wipe us out of existence. It's still a long shot, but worth doing imho

 

[uberfalcon]

I can't get past the whole "Data was cloned with just one single positron" idea.

And if her strength is somehow enhanced, how would the era's advanced medical technology not have noticed something out of the ordinary, whether it be something artificial or maybe just overdeveloped muscles/connective tissue?

 

[Nerys Myk]

I can't get past the whole "Data was cloned with just one single positron" idea.

Then Star Trek might not be the franchise for you.

And if her strength is somehow enhanced, how would the era's advanced medical technology not have noticed something out of the ordinary, whether it be something artificial or maybe just overdeveloped muscles/connective tissue?

The era's "advanced medical technology" only works as well as the story permits. Same as all the other "technology".

 

[fireproof78]

The era's "advanced medical technology" only works as well as the story permits. Same as all the other "technology".

Yeah, speed of plot isn't just for pacing. Technology gets conveniently forgotten (like transporters being able to cure disease) and only gets used if important to the plot.

Star Trek is wildly inconsistent in technological application.

 

[Kor]

Juliana Tainer was built with tech that gave off signals that would make scanners read her as human. Dahj probably had something similar, but even better after Maddox's additional R&D. And maybe her enhanced strength, speed, reflexes, etc. were simply not accessible until she "activated," a process which would override the built-in limits that were in place to make her seem like an ordinary human.

Soong wasn't concerned with creating an android, he was concerned with creating a mind, and arguably, a life. The Data-style chassis was secondary and probably trivial for the Federation to manufacture. The biological synths appear to be even closer to a human mind than we saw Data to be in some ways.

The physical appearance is probably the easiest part by far. The whole exchange about "Isn't it possible to create a synthetic that looks fully human?" made me blink, since it's already been done in the Star Trek universe a bunch of times (including Juliana)... at least if that means "looks fully human" on a surface level, and not necessarily holding up to advanced quantum-scanner-level scrutiny.

Just imagine that the Daystrom Institute had spent decades working on an artificial physical body based on all the data from McCoy's scans of the Ilia probe in TMP. "Even the smallest body functions are exactly duplicated. And every exocrine system is here, too." And Maddox adds the tech to give off false bio-readings, and for the AI mind, combines all this with the whole mumbo-jumbo about the positronic matrix and "fractal neuronic cloning" (fractal, now there's a '90s buzzword for ya). And voila, you have a replicant that can perfectly pass for human.

Kor

 

[uberfalcon]

Yeah, speed of plot isn't just for pacing. Technology gets conveniently forgotten (like transporters being able to cure disease) and only gets used if important to the plot.

Star Trek is wildly inconsistent in technological application.

Yeah, the plot speed, at least of the first episode, seems to be designed to distract viewers from how rushed the story feels.

 

[BillJ]

I can't get past the whole "Data was cloned with just one single positron" idea.

Yeah, I’m struggling there as well.

And if her strength is somehow enhanced, how would the era's advanced medical technology not have noticed something out of the ordinary, whether it be something artificial or maybe just overdeveloped muscles/connective tissue?

Dahj may not have been active/on Earth all that long. She may have been able to avoid medical scans.