I don't think the writers realize how small a positron is. (It's the anti-particle of the electron) and that also means that it wouldn't last very long surrounded by matter.
Spoilers Picard 1x1, "Remembrance"
- Thread starter The Old Mixer
- Start date
I don't think the writers realize how small a positron is. (It's the anti-particle of the electron) and that also means that it wouldn't last very long surrounded by matter.
I'm not gonna go back and read 91 pages, but I am very satisfied with the episode. It's a good story in its own right and it deals with existing canon in ways that I find very pleasing. I'm glad B-4 never became Data. I'm glad they ignored the destroy-the-galaxy aspect of the supernova. I was delighted to hear that Bruce Maddox has a role in all this.
Picard's disillusionment with Starfleet is a very poignant and relatable thing in 2020.
Picard's disillusionment with Starfleet is a very poignant and relatable thing in 2020.
If you're expecting that the show's arc will be to magically resurrect Data, then....
https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/brent-spiner-on-data-return-in-star-trek-picard
Except they don't have paramedics, apparently.
As a side benefit, in the ensuing chaos he was able to delete all federation records showing his parentage to AlexanderWorf's the villain.He sabotaged the synths to prevent Romulus from being evacuated. There, I saved all of us a few months of CBS All Access fees.
#WorfIsABadPerson
I don't get this line of thinking...
It IS a completely different show from The Next Generation.
Even though They are using many of the same characters, the shows premise is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.
Yup.
How can you say that the way they used Data was in any way like his appearances on TNG? Ridiculous! And we've seen glimpses of the Riker/Troi scenes. Come on...!
Think about what would have happened if Data was still alive when Dahj showed up. He would have finally been able to love her
It would have been a grotesque violation for Maddox to have stolen a component of a living Data and used it to create an "offspring" without Data's consent.
It makes no sense at all in the context of the 2009 film, as how would Romulus have been torn to shreds if the supernova wasn't Romulus' own star. It's total junk, best not to dwell on things that can't possible make sense.
It makes exactly as much sense as being able to extrapolate the entirety of creation from a piece of fairy cake. Seems Trek is taking its cues from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy now. After all, how improbable was the Spore Drive. Hope Picard remembers to pack a towel.
But...it's the future! The replicators can now remember that shit.
I don't think it would have been out of character for Data to give him a tiny redundant component of himself if Maddox asked nicely.
,
It would have been better if being a 24th century human of 140 was like being 21st century human of 100, Picard in TNG should be 100 years old, a 21st century version of a 50 year old.
It was always an unusual request he would only make when he was really worked up. Alternatively, it could be that if he didn't ask for it hot, it would provide him a liquid that was almost but not entirely unlike tea only to him, and he was too embarassed about the situation to ask Geordi to come and fix it. Could be it also was his british accent that confused the replicator. I bet whenever he asked it for synth ale, it always provided it at room temperature unless he deliberately asked for it cold.
I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised and cautiously optimistic about this show. It already feels more Star Trek than Discovery ever did and getting a better balance between paying homage to the old while introducing the new. Clearly they learned their lessons in that regard.
I was worried they might "Last Jedi" Jean Luc, but fortunately he remains the same basic person
.
The only quibble is the bland, generic Netflix style series music and opening credits.
I was worried they might "Last Jedi" Jean Luc, but fortunately he remains the same basic person
whose reason for leaving Starfleet is entirely understandable and one the audience can respect
The only quibble is the bland, generic Netflix style series music and opening credits.
The rescue fleet was specifically targeted in the attack. The reasons are unknown, but that was the goal of the attack, it wasn't just "let's randomly blast Mars all over."
Just watched it.
Thought it was a very good start, I wonder after the attack if star fleet was some how threatened let Romulals die or earth will be next.
Can't think of anther reason for them to back off unless after the mars attack and the dominion war there is a feeling startfleet needs to look after its own.
Love the tos style music you hear on the cube.
Thought it was a very good start, I wonder after the attack if star fleet was some how threatened let Romulals die or earth will be next.
Can't think of anther reason for them to back off unless after the mars attack and the dominion war there is a feeling startfleet needs to look after its own.
Love the tos style music you hear on the cube.
Which is a woefully inefficient way to tell a story.
Overall a 7 (Average on the poll here)from me.
Stuff I liked:
- The production values are of course top notch.
- Seeing more of civilian Earth of the late 24th/early 25th century. (The Boston cityscape and other areas).
- That Earth may not be as 'Utopian' as TNG made out in that we have a reporter with a CLEAR agenda of not just giving an decorated Starfleet Admiral a 'Softball' interview. Picard was well known but had never talked about the fallout from the Mars incident; and she was there to grill him on it. (I will say, I also like that they did do older Picard right in that he was caught off guard, but in the end, instead of just walking off, he made a statement <--- Which is the same way he was through TNG's run.)
- That we find the Mars synth attack ended CENTURIES of terraforming efforts, ignited combustible gases in the upper atmosphere, killed 92,000 inhabitants; and that Mars is still burning/in flames a decade later <--- IE - What I like here is that hey, there IS a problem that 24th/25th century tech can't just magically reverse with some sort of particle/beam/etc. <--- Which was another TNG trope of the 1701-D with Data/Geordi and the Deflector Dish solving a major planatery catastrophe in the last five minutes (see TNG S5 ' "A Matter of Time" and TNG S7 - "Inheritance"). here was a disaster that couldn't just be teched away.
- I thought the aspect of Picard having nightmare's about Mars and Data combined was good; and I like the way they worked the dream about the painting and how it's related to Dahj AND Data was a nice touch.
- The ultimate death of Dahj (yep that was unexpected); although it was minimized by the fact they so loudly hit us viewers over the head (in MANY OBVIOUS WAYS) that - "Hey, there must be TWO of them way before the Daystrom 'nerd' scientist reveals that the only method of cloning that would allow for a synthetic to be 'fully humanlike' produces a pair of clones (how convenient.)
Stuff I Disliked:
- Sorry but I agree that overall the pacing in spots of the episode was abysmal. I like Stewart's acting, but they really dragged out sequences; (like the card game in Ten Forward - so yeah, where's all the TNG fans that complained about a lot of the scenes in various STD episodes that they felt were just nostalgic fan service?) The scene went on way too long IMO and was there just to pander to TNG fan nostalgia - but hey it's TNG so that's different?).
- Where are the police after the assault in Dahj's apartment? They seem to quickly find Picard in France after that incident and return him home (and hell don't even question him about anything it appears) - but in the highly monitored near 25th century; three Romulan thugs teleport in, kill a Federation citizen, fire energy weapons; and are ultimately left dead on the floor - yet, no one (or sensor) in the building picks this up; or if they do - how does Dahj manage to spend the night at Picard's Vineyard, then teleport to France, etc. WITHOUT any sort of APB from some police agency somewhere? Are you trying to tell me something like this would go unnoticed in 'Utpopian' Boston for 12-24 hours? Dahj definitely has a citizen record/history as a citizne in the Federation. Shen was just accepted to the Daystrom Institute. Where ARE the Police after this major incident of 4 deaths and possible murder.
- Why, (after going through pretty great lengths with a database search and believing he's the only one who can help); does she run off? Sorry but the whole "I don't want to put anyone else in danger..." is just a bit weird if she's that frightened considering again, she DOESN'T go to the police or some authority in the Federation that would protect Civilians who are under armed threat?
And WHY does she leave her necklace (something her farther specifically made for her) behind so easily AFTER Picard hands it directly back to her?
- And sorry, the whole "Mom I'm in trouble..."/and the supposed deep plant masquerading as Mom for at least a year or more (Dahj again appears to have a 'normal' liife for a while, has a boyfriend, was accepted into a prestigious Federation organization) IMMEDIATELY slips up and says "Go back to Picard..." - BEFORE Dahj mentions him...talk about an OVERUSED trope (and not just in Trek here). Please, Chabon is supposed to be a good writer, but falling back on such a tired old trope here? Just so they can drive home to the audience - "Hey something' not right about her..." <--- IDK 3 murdering Romulans appearing out of nowhere, slapping some sort of diagnostic device on her head, and mentioning - "She's not activated yet..."; and a minute later "She's activating!" and eh proceeds to kill them all ISN'T enough for the audience to pick all this up? Again, why all this extra padding to this particular character setup? Just so they can have a reason that the Romulan thugs don't beam in to th4 Vineyard and have a run in with Picard's Romulan house staff when they try to kidnap Dajh?
- Picard's high tech storage trailer in the "Starfleet Quantum Archives". Do all Starfleet personnel (including one who completely resigned his commission in protest) get a 100% secure "their eyes only" area (where even the Index Hologram won't divulge what's there)? Why wasn't some (or most) of this stuff not at the Vineyard where Picard makes his home? It seems to have a lot of security as we learn when Dahj disappears and runs off to France. And he ALREADY recognized Dahj in the painting hanging at his home - so why the need to go to the Archives to begin with - except because they now need a neutral place (IE not the Vineyard with Picard's Romulan house staff there.)
- And with respect to Dahj showing up out of nowhere. Doesn't Picard have acess to the 24th/25th century version of the Internet, AND since he has a Quantum Archive Storage Unit' - wouldn't he still have some elevated access to do searches? IE - Why didn't Picard not even bother to do a minimal cursory lookup of Dahj's history/background after she first arrived? No, he just (pretty much out of the blue) asks only about her necklace and hands it directly back to her so she can place it on the table to leave it behind); sends her to her room, and goes straight to bed himself.
- I also think they probably could and should have saved the ACTUAL "Yes folks...there's a twin of Dahj..." reveal for the start of episode 2, but that's me. It's pretty standard to do it the way they did it, and it did add the reveal that yes, the Rolulans are studying a Borg cube...Dun...dun...dun...
Again, overall, I did enjoy it, and I agree that Patrick Stewart's is doing a really nice job here acting wise - and while I agree with others that they really did seem to be dragging some stuff out unnecessarily - it does set up an interesting situation, and does leave some interesting questions waiting to be answered.
That said, it's honestly still at about the same writing level as STD with the way it handles fanservice, some tropes, and certain plot points and plot devices to move the story along;yet here we have a number of TNG fans who criticize STD when it does it, but when using TNG characters that these fans love and really relate to, instead there comments are: "Now, this is the way to do it...great job!"
I will throw something out there that I think would be interesting if they go this route; but I doubt they will:
Data was completely destroyed and B-4 was a completely inferior android to Data. BUT - what about Lore. Yes Data shoots and deactivates him at the end of TNG S6 - "Descent II":
http://www.chakoteya.net/NextGen/253.htm
So yeah, I doubt they left Lore there - thus, a some point Lore should be sitting on a shelf somewhere (maybe he was even store in that Quantum Archive facility); but my plot point that I think would be interesting if they go there:
What if (because again Data is destroyed and B-4 inferior) Maddox used Lore's positronic mcguffins as the basis for Starfleet Synth research going forward, and that's why all the Synths went Rogue and did what they did to Mars? Maddox may have ten realized his mistake, still had something from the actual Data and after being barred from further research did use that part of Data (and maybe some Borg tech which is why the Romulans are also interested), and off we go. hell a real twist would be the Dahj twins were made from a combination of Data's and Lore's mcguffins; OR that she's 100% from Lore, with adjustments from Maddox that he believes fixes the problems of his original Synth designs based off Lore. It would be great if Brent Spiner also reprised Lore (who of course would be destroyed in a noble sacrifice at the end to atone for his deeds - and saves Picard and Co.); and of course at the end Dahj either is left to live her life masquerading as a human; OR Picard of course manages to get Starfleet to see the ban on Synths is wrong, and they start making more with Dahj as a template and they get their rights back.
But yeah, probably not (and yeah, there's a lot of tropes there as well, but hey that's Star Trek; TOS, TNG, STD, STP, doesn't matter.
) 
So again (and if anyone did actaully readx all this...my God!) - Overall a 7 (Average on the poll here)from me.
Stuff I liked:
- The production values are of course top notch.
- Seeing more of civilian Earth of the late 24th/early 25th century. (The Boston cityscape and other areas).
- That Earth may not be as 'Utopian' as TNG made out in that we have a reporter with a CLEAR agenda of not just giving an decorated Starfleet Admiral a 'Softball' interview. Picard was well known but had never talked about the fallout from the Mars incident; and she was there to grill him on it. (I will say, I also like that they did do older Picard right in that he was caught off guard, but in the end, instead of just walking off, he made a statement <--- Which is the same way he was through TNG's run.)
- That we find the Mars synth attack ended CENTURIES of terraforming efforts, ignited combustible gases in the upper atmosphere, killed 92,000 inhabitants; and that Mars is still burning/in flames a decade later <--- IE - What I like here is that hey, there IS a problem that 24th/25th century tech can't just magically reverse with some sort of particle/beam/etc. <--- Which was another TNG trope of the 1701-D with Data/Geordi and the Deflector Dish solving a major planatery catastrophe in the last five minutes (see TNG S5 ' "A Matter of Time" and TNG S7 - "Inheritance"). here was a disaster that couldn't just be teched away.
- I thought the aspect of Picard having nightmare's about Mars and Data combined was good; and I like the way they worked the dream about the painting and how it's related to Dahj AND Data was a nice touch.
- The ultimate death of Dahj (yep that was unexpected); although it was minimized by the fact they so loudly hit us viewers over the head (in MANY OBVIOUS WAYS) that - "Hey, there must be TWO of them way before the Daystrom 'nerd' scientist reveals that the only method of cloning that would allow for a synthetic to be 'fully humanlike' produces a pair of clones (how convenient.)
Stuff I Disliked:
- Sorry but I agree that overall the pacing in spots of the episode was abysmal. I like Stewart's acting, but they really dragged out sequences; (like the card game in Ten Forward - so yeah, where's all the TNG fans that complained about a lot of the scenes in various STD episodes that they felt were just nostalgic fan service?) The scene went on way too long IMO and was there just to pander to TNG fan nostalgia - but hey it's TNG so that's different?).
- Where are the police after the assault in Dahj's apartment? They seem to quickly find Picard in France after that incident and return him home (and hell don't even question him about anything it appears) - but in the highly monitored near 25th century; three Romulan thugs teleport in, kill a Federation citizen, fire energy weapons; and are ultimately left dead on the floor - yet, no one (or sensor) in the building picks this up; or if they do - how does Dahj manage to spend the night at Picard's Vineyard, then teleport to France, etc. WITHOUT any sort of APB from some police agency somewhere? Are you trying to tell me something like this would go unnoticed in 'Utpopian' Boston for 12-24 hours? Dahj definitely has a citizen record/history as a citizne in the Federation. Shen was just accepted to the Daystrom Institute. Where ARE the Police after this major incident of 4 deaths and possible murder.
- Why, (after going through pretty great lengths with a database search and believing he's the only one who can help); does she run off? Sorry but the whole "I don't want to put anyone else in danger..." is just a bit weird if she's that frightened considering again, she DOESN'T go to the police or some authority in the Federation that would protect Civilians who are under armed threat?
And WHY does she leave her necklace (something her farther specifically made for her) behind so easily AFTER Picard hands it directly back to her?
- And sorry, the whole "Mom I'm in trouble..."/and the supposed deep plant masquerading as Mom for at least a year or more (Dahj again appears to have a 'normal' liife for a while, has a boyfriend, was accepted into a prestigious Federation organization) IMMEDIATELY slips up and says "Go back to Picard..." - BEFORE Dahj mentions him...talk about an OVERUSED trope (and not just in Trek here). Please, Chabon is supposed to be a good writer, but falling back on such a tired old trope here? Just so they can drive home to the audience - "Hey something' not right about her..." <--- IDK 3 murdering Romulans appearing out of nowhere, slapping some sort of diagnostic device on her head, and mentioning - "She's not activated yet..."; and a minute later "She's activating!" and eh proceeds to kill them all ISN'T enough for the audience to pick all this up? Again, why all this extra padding to this particular character setup? Just so they can have a reason that the Romulan thugs don't beam in to th4 Vineyard and have a run in with Picard's Romulan house staff when they try to kidnap Dajh?
- Picard's high tech storage trailer in the "Starfleet Quantum Archives".
Do all Starfleet personnel (including one who completely resigned his commission in protest) get a 100% secure "their eyes only" area (where even the Index Hologram won't divulge what's there)? Why wasn't some (or most) of this stuff not at the Vineyard where Picard makes his home? It seems to have a lot of security as we learn when Dahj disappears and runs off to France. And he ALREADY recognized Dahj in the painting hanging at his home - so why the need to go to the Archives to begin with - except because they now need a neutral place (IE not the Vineyard with Picard's Romulan house staff there.)- And with respect to Dahj showing up out of nowhere. Doesn't Picard have acess to the 24th/25th century version of the Internet, AND since he has a Quantum Archive Storage Unit' - wouldn't he still have some elevated access to do searches? IE - Why didn't Picard not even bother to do a minimal cursory lookup of Dahj's history/background after she first arrived? No, he just (pretty much out of the blue) asks only about her necklace and hands it directly back to her so she can place it on the table to leave it behind); sends her to her room, and goes straight to bed himself.
- I also think they probably could and should have saved the ACTUAL "Yes folks...there's a twin of Dahj..." reveal for the start of episode 2, but that's me. It's pretty standard to do it the way they did it, and it did add the reveal that yes, the Rolulans are studying a Borg cube...Dun...dun...dun...
Again, overall, I did enjoy it, and I agree that Patrick Stewart's is doing a really nice job here acting wise - and while I agree with others that they really did seem to be dragging some stuff out unnecessarily - it does set up an interesting situation, and does leave some interesting questions waiting to be answered.
That said, it's honestly still at about the same writing level as STD with the way it handles fanservice, some tropes, and certain plot points and plot devices to move the story along;yet here we have a number of TNG fans who criticize STD when it does it, but when using TNG characters that these fans love and really relate to, instead there comments are: "Now, this is the way to do it...great job!"
I will throw something out there that I think would be interesting if they go this route; but I doubt they will:
Data was completely destroyed and B-4 was a completely inferior android to Data. BUT - what about Lore. Yes Data shoots and deactivates him at the end of TNG S6 - "Descent II":
http://www.chakoteya.net/NextGen/253.htm
^^^
So yeah, I doubt they left Lore there - thus, a some point Lore should be sitting on a shelf somewhere (maybe he was even store in that Quantum Archive facility
); but my plot point that I think would be interesting if they go there:What if (because again Data is destroyed and B-4 inferior) Maddox used Lore's positronic mcguffins as the basis for Starfleet Synth research going forward, and that's why all the Synths went Rogue and did what they did to Mars? Maddox may have ten realized his mistake, still had something from the actual Data and after being barred from further research did use that part of Data (and maybe some Borg tech which is why the Romulans are also interested), and off we go. hell a real twist would be the Dahj twins were made from a combination of Data's and Lore's mcguffins; OR that she's 100% from Lore, with adjustments from Maddox that he believes fixes the problems of his original Synth designs based off Lore. It would be great if Brent Spiner also reprised Lore (who of course would be destroyed in a noble sacrifice at the end to atone for his deeds - and saves Picard and Co.); and of course at the end Dahj either is left to live her life masquerading as a human; OR Picard of course manages to get Starfleet to see the ban on Synths is wrong, and they start making more with Dahj as a template and they get their rights back.
But yeah, probably not (and yeah, there's a lot of tropes there as well, but hey that's Star Trek; TOS, TNG, STD, STP, doesn't matter.
) So again (and if anyone did actaully readx all this...my God!) - Overall a 7 (Average on the poll here)from me.
S
Spicy Thunder
Guest
I noticed that too! That was pretty nice.