Spoilers Picard Prequel "Children of Mars"

[Jayson1]

Wouldn't Romulus have many ships to evacuate their people? Of course the Spore Drive from Discovery could get people in and out in a jiff. Of course what the Romulans should have done is create time travel and send their people back into previous time periods in it's history.

Jason

 

[thribs]

But how many would reasonably be available after the Dominion War?

It would have been over 10 years since that war. Plenty of time to get some new ships out. The Borg war of 2381 never happened so they wouldn’t be that weak.
I think people underestimate how many ships the Federation (not just Starfleet) would have at that point. It would be in the thousands.

 

[Dukhat]

Wouldn't Romulus have many ships to evacuate their people?

Yes, and I’m pretty sure we see an entire fleet of them in the first Picard trailer, flying toward Mars, Vulcan, or whatever that red planet is.

 

[thribs]

Yes, and I’m pretty sure we see an entire fleet of them in the first Picard trailer, flying toward Mars, Vulcan, or whatever that red planet is.

Mars would be fitting for the Romulans as he was the father of Romulus and Remus in Roman myth.

 

[Dukhat]

Mars would be fitting for the Romulans as he was the father of Romulus and Remus in Roman myth.

Which has nothing at all to do with the alien race that coincidentally calls themselves Romulans.

 

[thribs]

Which has nothing at all to do with the alien race that coincidentally calls themselves Romulans.

I know that. It’s just a nice coincidence.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

It would have been over 10 years since that war. Plenty of time to get some new ships out. The Borg war of 2381 never happened so they wouldn’t be that weak.
I think people underestimate how many ships the Federation (not just Starfleet) would have at that point. It would be in the thousands.

If we go by lines of dialogue from DS9 during the Dominion War, Starfleet probably had anywhere between 20,000 - 30,000 ships. That is not really a lot when you consider how many ships are probably needed to maintain the Federations borders, how many need to be on patrol or assigned to duties within Federation space or how many are on deep space exploration missions. Starfleet may have assigned as many ships as possible during the initial hobus event but quickly realised that they would need more. A Galaxy class starship has an evac limit of 15,000. You would need a lot of Galaxy class starships to evacuate 18 billion people.

Also, The Romulan empire would have descended into anarchy. No doubt the military would have become factionalised with ambitious Admirals grabbing territory and military assets, former slave and vassal worlds would have sought independence and depending on who is currently in charge of the Klingom Empire, they may have been a problem as well. It would be an absolute shit show, 10,000 ships may have been needed just to keep peace within the empire.

 

[urbandk]

I like very much that even in theory this show is grappling with the moral and practical implications of a disaster the scale of the destruction of Romulus.

I understand that's the point as a modern refugee allegory, but it's interesting to see how both Romulus/Vulcan were mostly convenient plot points in ST09 but now command a more thoughtful approach.

 

[thribs]

18 billion? Where did that number come from?
I also don’t see how it’s the Federation’s problem? They’ve always been jerks to them.
I’d say they let them die and then invade and take over. They could finally use cloaking devices without worrying about that treaty.

 

[urbandk]

18 billion? Where did that number come from?
I also don’t see how it’s the Federation’s problem? They’ve always been jerks to them.
I’d say they let them die and then invade and take over. They could finally use cloaking devices without worrying about that treaty.

I can't tell if you're joking, but this is the exact opposite of all the ideals the Federation is supposed to represent

 

[thribs]

I can't tell if you're joking, but this is the exact opposite of all the ideals the Federation is supposed to represent

Bah! They can take a day off with those ideals. The Galaxy would be better without them.

 

[urbandk]

Bah! They can take a day off with those ideals. The Galaxy would be better without them.

I agree that (to its discredit) Star Trek writ large has mostly portrayed Romulans as monolithic villains, but even so, tacitly accepting the death of billions is a grievous crime IMO.

An effort to save people from annihilation should not be contingent on their subjective moral worth.

 

[thribs]

I agree that (to its discredit) Star Trek writ large has mostly portrayed Romulans as monolithic villains, but even so, tacitly accepting the death of billions is a grievous crime IMO.

An effort to save people from annihilation should not be contingent on their subjective moral worth.

The Federation could play ignorance. Say that their commutation arrays were down for maintenance. They didn’t hear the distress call.

 

[urbandk]

The Federation could play ignorance. Say that their commutation arrays were down for maintenance. They didn’t hear the distress call.

 

[thribs]

Ha! I was thinking of the the exact same scene. Kirk has the right idea.

 

[SolarisOne]

Ha! I was thinking of the the exact same scene. Kirk has the right idea.

And if they had let the Klingon Empire die, the Federation would have lost the Dominion War.

 

[thribs]

And if they had let the Klingon Empire die, the Federation would have lost the Dominion War.

Or the Klingons get so weak that they join the Federation making them more powerful.

 

[Markonian]

And if they had let the Klingon Empire die, the Federation would have lost the Dominion War.

Or the Klingons get so weak that they join the Federation making them more powerful.

Top play advocatus diaboli, it is only with hindsight that we know the Federation/Klingon Alliance was needed to defeat the Dominion. Before that, canon and expanded universe have shown repeatedly how easy it is for the Klingon to start bullying the Federation (instead of focusing on conquering the Romulan Star Empire). If it wasn't for their use later, I'd argue Admiral Cornwell should've gone ahead with the original plan in '57.

Hostile species should be grateful that the Federation has such high moral standards - the Klingons were spared, the Founders saved, and in TrekLit, Memory Omega opts against wiping out the Cardassians despite decades of brutal oppression by them.

Perhaps 'an effort to save people from annihilation should be contingent on their subjective moral worth'?

 

[Mach5]

Which has nothing at all to do with the alien race that coincidentally calls themselves Romulans.

In my headcanon the names Romulus, Remus and Vulcan (Roman god of fire) were assigned to these planets by Humans, and the natives call them differently in their respective languages.

Of course, there's enough canonical evidence to the contrary, but since the canon contradicts itself at every chance it gets, I'm perfectly comfortable substituting official stuff with my own.

 

[Tosk]

Am I mistaken, or are there PICARD spoilers drifting into this thread?