12 O'Clock High Rips Off Star Trek Theme?

[MAGolding]

I did a quick Google and found this (link): In short, The Adventures of Superman relied on existing music cues which were rerecorded for the show.

And speaking of influences v. copying....

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http://www.forcematerial.com/home/2016/12/12/the-origin-of-the-crawl

So what was the first use of an opening crawl?

See here: https://scifi.stackexchange.com/que...s-of-star-wars-were-derived-from-flash-gordon
And here: https://movies.stackexchange.com/questions/104343/origin-of-movie-opening-crawl

And here: http://www.forcematerial.com/home/2016/12/12/the-origin-of-the-crawl

 

[Neopeius]

Following up on this for what it's worth...having just rewatched the first four episodes of 12 O'Clock High as 55th anniversary business, I can confirm that the Trek fanfare-presaging musical motif in question here does indeed first turn up in the fifth: "The Climate of Doubt," aired October 23, 1964.

There's no way this is a coincidence -- it's not just the notes being in the same sequence; they are also often in exactly the same rhythm (dotted eighth, sixteenth, dotted fourth, eighth, eighth, eighth, eighth, half -- or like that... I'm a musician, but my pitch transcription is better than my rhythm transcription).

I'm not just talking about general sound of music (like Trek sounding like Robinson Crusoe on Mars -- that makes sense since Courage worked on that one, too). It's the exact same motif. Every time we hear it, we giggle. Although now my head canon is Frank Savage is a multi-great grandfather of Kirk's.

Anyway, 12 O' Clock High's music had to have come first. I wonder if the true story exists anywhere.

 

[Qonundrum]

I'm a bit late to the thread (what else is new, lol) - but back in the day, wouldn't they reuse partial or complete scores to save costs? It helped that home video didn't exist, or that some shows would end up being so iconic...

James Horner's TWOK music has riffs that can be found in Cocoon and other of his movies as well.

 

[Maurice]

I'm a bit late to the thread (what else is new, lol) - but back in the day, wouldn't they reuse partial or complete scores to save costs? It helped that home video didn't exist, or that some shows would end up being so iconic...

James Horner's TWOK music has riffs that can be found in Cocoon and other of his movies as well.

There are lots of union rules around music in Hollywood so it's not always as easy as tracking music from one show into another.

Horner could borrow from himself freely. If he'd copied Goldsmith the issue woulda been different.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Since somebody bumped this, here's the second episode in which I noticed the similar fanfare being used...it's right as the episode opens:

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"Here's to Courageous Cowards," aired December 4, 1964.

 

[Maurice]

Since somebody bumped this, here's the second episode in which I noticed the similar fanfare being used...it's right as the episode opens:

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"Here's to Courageous Cowards," aired December 4, 1964.

There's a lot of that motif featured in the episode and expanded versions of it, and the more of it I hear the less on-the-nose to Trek it feels.

 

[The Old Mixer]

There's a lot of that motif featured in the episode and expanded versions of it, and the more of it I hear the less on-the-nose to Trek it feels.

As I touched upon up in post #11, I think that the show is using numerous variations of its own, more bombastic fanfare (heard in the opening credits as the announcer says "Twelve O'Clock High...a QM Production"), some of which sound distinctly similar to the Trek fanfare. Most of those variations don't.

Which is all the more reason for others not to even entertain the possibility that the Trek fanfare somehow came first, because Dominic Frontiere was basing that particular variation on a distinctly different-sounding fanfare of his own composition.

 

[Harvey]

Horner could borrow from himself freely. If he'd copied Goldsmith the issue woulda been different.

Well...if he got caught borrowing from Goldsmith, the issue would have been different. Jerry's influence (the nicest way of putting it) is all over the scores Horner did when he was working for Roger Corman.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Battle Beyond the Stars has some very specific references to Klingon Battle from TMP. Also, if I recall correctly, Humanoids of the Deep borrows from Alien. I can't find where I read it, but it was my understanding that Horner was specifically asked to use those films as a basis, or was asked to mimic the temp track as much as possible while avoiding litigation.

Horner grabbed from Goldsmith, variety of classical composers and himself. None of this ever dampened my love of his work. But composers cribbing from other composers didn't start with Horner. Ever listen to Richard LeSalle's work? His scores for Land of the Giants, Planet of the Apes and Buck Rogers have Goldsmith all over them. Even DOminic Frontiere cribbed some of Bernard Hermann's scores for The Rat Patrol.

 

[Phaser Two]

Since somebody bumped this, here's the second episode in which I noticed the similar fanfare being used...it's right as the episode opens:

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"Here's to Courageous Cowards," aired December 4, 1964.

LOL! I had never seen the show, but that's egregious! It's practically verbatim.

 

[Maurice]

LOL! I had never seen the show, but that's egregious! It's practically verbatim.

Egregious of Trek to steal it?

 

[BK613]

I wonder if this is more prevalent then people realize?
Gustav Holst: Saturn, The Bringer of Old Age (start at 4:22)

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Raider of the Lost Ark-The Map Room (start at 0:34)

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[plynch]

Yeah, Williams borrows a lot from Holst, Vaughn Williams and Prokofiev (the less "Romantic" melodies like the Jawa theme, say).

A composer can't necessarily crib from her- or himself if the work is a work-for-hire and she/he doesn't own the copyright. Both in writing and music, people have been prevented from longer quotes or reusing their own stuff, because they don't own it; a publishing company does.

 

[Jim Klag]

Just caught the beginning of this episode of the TV series based on the Gregory Peck movie. It sure sounds like they're using part of the Star Trek theme at the beginning and throughout. By the way, this episode guest stars Gary Lockwood. The music is credited to Dominic Frontiere and Lionel Newman.

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The 12 O'Clock High series predates Star Trek by two years. Wonder if maybe you got the ripoff backwards. That episode was from season 1 which aired in 1964. Star Trek premiered in 1966.

 

[BK613]

Yeah, Williams borrows a lot from Holst, Vaughn Williams and Prokofiev (the less "Romantic" melodies like the Jawa theme, say).

A composer can't necessarily crib from her- or himself if the work is a work-for-hire and she/he doesn't own the copyright. Both in writing and music, people have been prevented from longer quotes or reusing their own stuff, because they don't own it; a publishing company does.

Of course one wonders if attitudes about IP has changed in the last 50 years also...

 

[Maurice]

Of course one wonders if attitudes about IP has changed in the last 50 years also...

Not according to all the plagiarism lawsuits filed in the 60s!

 

[Neopeius]

The 12 O'Clock High series predates Star Trek by two years. Wonder if maybe you got the ripoff backwards. That episode was from season 1 which aired in 1964. Star Trek premiered in 1966.

There's no question 12 O' Clock High came first. But it predates the original scoring of Trek (for The Cage) by just a few months, which to my mind makes it even more likely that the two are related.

 

[The Old Mixer]

But 12OCH would have had its even earlier original scoring period as well.

The bottom line is that 12OCH was being broadcast into millions of homes when Trek was scored. Would've been a simple enough matter for Courage to have been "inspired" by it.

 

[Jim Klag]

There's no question 12 O' Clock High came first. But it predates the original scoring of Trek (for The Cage) by just a few months, which to my mind makes it even more likely that the two are related.

IIRC most of the TV show's score came from the movie (I know the main theme did) which was made in 1949. I don't think Star Trek's score was started that early.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Nope. The film's music was by Alfred Newman. The series' was by Dominic Frontiere. And when I watched the film, I didn't notice any strong similarities.