• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Spoilers Crisis on Infinite Earths Discussion (CW Event Spoiler Thread)

I'm guessing that Michael Gough's Alfred is really the only big link between the first two and following Batman films of that era. As such, I'm quite happy accepting the nipple-films as a separate continuity from the Burton films.

Mark
 
I'm guessing that Michael Gough's Alfred is really the only big link between the first two and following Batman films of that era. As such, I'm quite happy accepting the nipple-films as a separate continuity from the Burton films.

Mark

..but they are not. This is why that series is often--and accurately--referred to as the "Burton-Schumacher Batman series" as there was no rebooting, just a continuation.
 
So have we nerds figured out about Earth-75's Superman? Played by any particular actor? That was E-1 Lois, but it didn't really look like E-1 Superman... And the suit, while without trunks, didn't have E-1's cape or shield... I get the whole pose was meant to evoke the final frame of Superman V.2 #75, but the finer details are interesting to me...

Mark
I didn't go back for a closer look, but my knee-jerk impression was that he kinda looked like George Reeves. Make of that what you will.

I'm guessing that Michael Gough's Alfred is really the only big link between the first two and following Batman films of that era. As such, I'm quite happy accepting the nipple-films as a separate continuity from the Burton films.

Mark

And it's not like we don't have precedent for universes having overlapping doppelgangers. I mean technically whatever Earth 'Birds of Prey' happened on had a Michael Keaton Batman, a Michelle Pfeiffer Catwoman, but a Ian Abercrombie Alfred, a Joker with Mark Hamill's voice, and a Batgirl that was neither Alicia Silverstone nor Alfred's niece.
 
Last edited:
I'm guessing that Michael Gough's Alfred is really the only big link between the first two and following Batman films of that era. As such, I'm quite happy accepting the nipple-films as a separate continuity from the Burton films.

Mark

Didn't they share the same Commissioner Gordon as well?

For better or for worse, all four films are part of the same cycle of Bat-flicks.
 
Did they confirm that Batman Forever and Batman and Robin, are in separate universes from Batman and Batman Returns? If the regular shows didn't, it's what Kevin Smith believes from what he said in the quiz during the first after show.

He thinks that Arnie's Mr Freeze is from Earth 97, not Earth 89.

Why would they be different Earths? The films seemed to be in the same loose continuity other than actor changes in the lead and Harvey Dent.
 
Didn't they share the same Commissioner Gordon as well?

Yes (Pat Hingle), although he was kind of a bit player in all four films.

Of course, shared actors don't necessarily make for a shared continuity -- just ask Judi Dench, who's played M in two separate James Bond continuities. Or Kevin Conroy, for that matter -- counting video games, this is approximately the 15th distinct version of Batman he's played. (The others are DCAU, Justice League Action, Gotham Knight, the Superman/Batman animated duology, Justice League: Doom, The Flashpoint Paradox, The Killing Joke, Batman and Harley Quinn, Teen Titans Go!, Scooby-Doo and Guess Who?, the Arkham games and animated movie, LEGO Batman (once), DC Universe Online, and the Injustice games.)
 
I think if you take this as a separate Earth than the Reeve films, it's much more palatable. THAT Superman doesn't deserve to become Kingdom Come Superman.
My main point was that the Routh Superman is a tribute to that version of Superman, and should be appreciated as such...whether or not it's the same Earth as / in continuity with the Reeves films is irrelevant.

And it's a high tribute to the Christopher Reeve version of the character that if faced with such a horrible development, he'd heroically carry on without sacrificing his principles. That's why he's one of the paragons.

One of the producers was born in 1967
In that case, we're all on Earth-169, because me.

And why they gave Lex such tunnel vision that he can't realize his Superman is Clark Kent too.
Under the circumstances, I felt that was extremely contrived. I get the whole "Lex refuses to see the obvious because it contradicts his entire worldview" thing under normal circumstances...but popping around the multiverse dealing with other Supermen who happen to be Clark Kent, and presumably having all the info he needs about them and his own Superman written right there in the damn book, yet still being blind to the truth, is too much.

(Bonus points for Kara's un-cousinly reaction to Routh-Supes.)
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
(Bonus point: Now Yvonne Craig is in the thread!)
 
I'd say, rather, that the approximate events of Superman: The Movie and Superman II are part of its continuity, but that doesn't mean it's reciprocally part of the continuity of the Christopher Reeve movie series -- which overtly took place 20-odd years earlier (sorry, the "timeless" thing doesn't cut it since it was presented as very much a contemporary piece) and included three movies (counting Supergirl) that SR doesn't acknowledge. They're two separate continuities that have two movies' worth of events approximately in common -- much like every Superman continuity shares events like the destruction of Krypton and Kal-El being found by the Kents. (Or like how there are seven distinct Godzilla film continuities that all include the 1954 film but otherwise contradict each other massively.)

That's the thing about fictional continuity -- since it's all made up anyway, one work can claim another as being in its continuity (at least after a fashion) but that doesn't mean the reverse will be true. Look at all the cases where an animated TV series spinoff presented itself as a direct sequel to a movie, only to be ignored by the movie's own sequels (e.g. The Real Ghostbusters, Men in Black, the MTV Spider-Man, etc.). Two things can be in continuity and out of continuity with each other at the same time.

After all, the continuity of fictional works is as imaginary as everything else about them. It's not an objectively real thing, it's just another storytelling device like everything else, and that makes it just as mutable and subject to the whims of storytellers.

Which was also used by the 1988 Superman animated series. And Danny Elfman's Batman theme has been used in at least four different continuities -- the Burton movies, B:TAS, the Justice League feature, and now here in the Earth-99 scenes.

Well, if as you say, it's all imaginary anyway, then why are we talking about the crossover or nitpicking stuff? I don't disagree that Superman Returns is a partial continuity of the Donner films (excluding the 3rd and 4th movies). I didn't say it was timeless either, but you might have been referencing another poster.

Why? Like I said, SR was 13 years ago. A lot could've happened in that universe in the meantime. Both Earth-96 and Earth-99 drew elements from the Kingdom Come versions of Superman and Batman, but neither was a direct adaptation of the work as a whole, just homaging certain aspects of it.

Why not? It's a matter of personal preference, since it's all imaginary anyway. ;) I would also prefer a naked cameo by Henry Cavill. Doesn't mean it's going to happen. Have you got a problem with that?
 
I'd say, rather, that the approximate events of Superman: The Movie and Superman II are part of its continuity, but that doesn't mean it's reciprocally part of the continuity of the Christopher Reeve movie series -- which overtly took place 20-odd years earlier (sorry, the "timeless" thing doesn't cut it since it was presented as very much a contemporary piece) and included three movies (counting Supergirl) that SR doesn't acknowledge. They're two separate continuities that have two movies' worth of events approximately in common -- much like every Superman continuity shares events like the destruction of Krypton and Kal-El being found by the Kents. (Or like how there are seven distinct Godzilla film continuities that all include the 1954 film but otherwise contradict each other massively.)
Guggenheim has flat-out stated that Routh in "CoIE" is Christopher Reeve's Superman. Given the references in last night's installment to Reeve's movies (including III and IV) as well as Superman Returns, we're clearly supposed to see all those films as part of this character's history, any internal contradictions or discontinuities notwithstanding.
 
I tried to say that this was a conclusion that Kevin Smith reached, on Live-ish TV.

Is he right or wrong?

He's wrong.

Guggenheim has flat-out stated that Routh in "CoIE" is Christopher Reeve's Superman. Given the references in last night's installment to Reeve's movies (including III and IV) as well as Superman Returns, we're clearly supposed to see all those films as part of this character's history, any internal contradictions or discontinuities notwithstanding.

Yep.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top