Anomalies in fandom

[ZapBrannigan]

Tougher for Koenig since his character was always hammy.

I think acting in a put-on accent was difficult for him, like trying to ride a unicycle and juggle at the same time. If you can't make it look easy, something is wrong. He should have been on a sitcom with no accent; maybe that's where he could have been really good.

 

[Grant]

I agree with everything said about Nichols Takei and Koenig in the movies. For the most part they were indeed Hammy. It must have been rough to get those scripts and see that you only had a handful of lines.
Then trying to make every one of those lines important.
And I hate the scene with Uhura in Star Trek 3 for many reasons. It's just such a stupid scene as are most of the scenes with the Starfleet Personnel in Star Trek 3. The entire Starfleet becomes rude insensitive incompetent so that our heroes can look great when they Rebel.
99 out of 100 Junior officers would be sitting there in awe of her -- asking her about all of her adventures with VGER and Khan the Doomsday Machine and the five-year mission and they show us the 1% jerk who wants to mock her because she's older. And the crowd cheers because Uhura DOES SOMETHING in a movie.

 

[Henoch]

And the crowd cheers because Uhura DOES SOMETHING in a movie.

At least she didn't degrade herself by getting naked and doing a fan dance...

 

[Ssosmcin]

Well, we think the crews adventures are amazing because they’re the focus of the series. Maybe every starship has that level of activity. Mr Adventure may have done a stint on the USS Excalibur and he got transferred off for being a dick or something.

 

[Pauln6]

I agree with everything said about Nichols Takei and Koenig in the movies. For the most part they were indeed Hammy. It must have been rough to get those scripts and see that you only had a handful of lines.
Then trying to make every one of those lines important.
And I hate the scene with Uhura in Star Trek 3 for many reasons. It's just such a stupid scene as are most of the scenes with the Starfleet Personnel in Star Trek 3. The entire Starfleet becomes rude insensitive incompetent so that our heroes can look great when they Rebel.
99 out of 100 Junior officers would be sitting there in awe of her -- asking her about all of her adventures with VGER and Khan the Doomsday Machine and the five-year mission and they show us the 1% jerk who wants to mock her because she's older. And the crowd cheers because Uhura DOES SOMETHING in a movie.

I do think the security guard disrespecting Sulu was odd, since Sulu was still an active officer and outranked him by a mile, but I rather liked the unintentional disrespect of the junior officer. TOS had plenty of comedy and that one was no worse than the others.

The issue for me is that the writers didn't really think through the escape that well. I'm sure there were dozens of canon ways established throughout TOS that could have ended the attempt. In the novelisation, it's actually Uhura who enables the escape by scrambling Starfleet communications and she had to stay behind to run interference with security. It's a shame that she didn't get enough credit in what we saw on screen.

 

[Noname Given]

The films lost some of the magic that the TV series had in abundance I've always thought! Maybe the cast, especially Shatner didn't take the scripts seriously enough?
JB

To be fair, when they started filming STII:TWoK it was going to just be a TV movie for NBC (with the option for more if the ratings were good). Add to that BOTH Shatner and Nimoy thought Star Trek typecast them (Hell, Shatner was reduced to living in a Truck an d doing anything he could find be it a commercial or narrating 16mm film documentaries sold to public schools); and had a negative overall effect on their acting careers.

Shatner was doing it for the paycheck and not because he liked the show or the character much; and Nimoy TURNED DOWN the opportunity to reprise the role of Spock in ST:TMP, was eventually talked/lured back into doing it was was the reason Spock was being killed off in STII (IE He requested it because he wanted to be done with the role.) They got him to agree to come back for STIII:TSFS only by givingh him the opportunity to direct it; and if he didn't - they were going to bring in another adult actor top play Spock and blame the 'change' on the Genesis effect.

Everytime the got together to do a ST film, they thought it would be the last one. All the "we had a great time..." and "The crew is like family..." was part of the Star Trek marketing machine because that's how GR talked about Star Trek after the series ended (although it wasn't something the 'Fab 4' promulgated on the convention circuit prior to the films); and the Star Trek fans ate that up.

 

[Grant]

It was never going to be a TV movie. It was produced by Paramount Television division simply because it was figured they would produce it more efficiently and save money. That myth never seems to die

 

[FormerLurker]

At least she didn't degrade herself by getting naked and doing a fan dance...

I'm still wondering how this was so degrading. The line got cut somewhere, but in the novelization, it was her idea. That doesn't sound like degradation to me.

I do think the security guard disrespecting Sulu was odd, since Sulu was still an active officer and outranked him by a mile,

I always took this as him being a "tough cop" type, 'not taking any nonsense.' His mistake being giving that much attitude to someone he has no idea the capabilities of. Remember, Sulu didn't pull rank on him, he beat the snot out of him.

 

[Harvey]

It was never going to be a TV movie. It was produced by Paramount Television division simply because it was figured they would produce it more efficiently and save money. That myth never seems to die

Actually, there was some talk of it being a TV movie very early on in development and even some announcements of those intentions in the trades — but by the time they were in pre-production, the movie was intended to be a theatrical feature. To give some context on the timeline, Nicholas Meyer did not come aboard to direct until after the decision was made to release the film theatrically, but when Bennett and Shatner signed on, it was still being considered as a television project.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Add to that BOTH Shatner and Nimoy thought Star Trek typecast them (Hell, Shatner was reduced to living in a Truck an d doing anything he could find be it a commercial or narrating 16mm film documentaries sold to public schools); and had a negative overall effect on their acting careers. Shatner was doing it for the paycheck and not because he liked the show or the character much

I don't agree really. "Star Trek" was his show. It was centered around his character and he got to be the lead for three seasons. He may not have liked having his career stalled afterward, but the series was one he enjoyed doing. Nimoy had issues, but Shatner was the BMOC and other than his competition with Nimoy, for a guy like Shatner, Trek was a dream job. Weekly heroics and romance. Why not come back and do it again? He was on board for the Phase II proposed relaunch and then the films.

I've never read anything by Shatner saying he was doing the Trek films "for the paycheck." Granted, as an actor, that's why you work - to make a living like anyone else. Actors who resent being typecast in a particular role don't generally jump back into the same role ten or more years later just when they're living it down. Shatner was getting more substantial roles by the time TMP loomed. As TWOK wrapped, "T.J. Hooker" was in production and premiered before Khan hit theaters. "Hooker" was a hit for him and Shatner was on his way back without Star Trek II. And he DID enjoy the script once Meyer came in and this was his chance to again headline a big event picture. At no time have I read that he resented the role. No actor wants his career stalled over one role, but his lean years were ending and I'm sure Star Trek's return in 1979 was a big part of that. He's had a great career ever since.

and Nimoy TURNED DOWN the opportunity to reprise the role of Spock in ST:TMP,

Yes, primarily because Paramount was holding out in royalty payments for using his image. Once Paramount settled, Nimoy joined the cast for TMP. He wasn't happy with the script, but that didn't stop him from joining up. He didn't resent the series either, but he didn't like the third year, mostly because Freiberger wouldn't recognize him as a lead of equal stature with Shatner and didn't listen to his suggestions. Nimoy actually was protective of "the Spock character" (as he termed him) and didn't want him used simply as a catchphrase spewing sidekick.

Nimoy was eventually talked/lured back into doing it was was the reason Spock was being killed off in STII (IE He requested it because he wanted to be done with the role.)

Nope, he didn't request it, Harve Bennett suggested it to him to pique his interest. Because Nimoy had such a rotten time on TMP, he chose to stay out of TWOK until Bennett gave him something interesting to chew on - "a great death scene." Nimoy didn't want Spock to be "just there." He wanted the character to do something and retain his dignity. This isn't a guy who resented the series or hated the role: he just wanted the be challenged as an actor and to have the character treated with respect.

They got him to agree to come back for STIII:TSFS only by givingh him the opportunity to direct it; and if he didn't - they were going to bring in another adult actor top play Spock and blame the 'change' on the Genesis effect.

I'm not sure where you're getting this stuff, but everything I've read says Nimoy wanted to come back because he had such a wonderful time on TWOK. And then since he knew he had the upper hand, he said he'd come back if he could direct. Michael Eisner agreed but then changed his mind because Eisner thought Nimoy demanded Spock be killed because he hated Star Trek. Nimoy assured him that no such clause was in his contract. After that was cleared up, Nimoy was back on the job. No other actor was going to replace him as Spock. Saavik was created to take over, but then Nimoy came back and they let her fade away.

Everytime the got together to do a ST film, they thought it would be the last one. All the "we had a great time..." and "The crew is like family..." was part of the Star Trek marketing machine because that's how GR talked about Star Trek after the series ended (although it wasn't something the 'Fab 4' promulgated on the convention circuit prior to the films); and the Star Trek fans ate that up.

Well, yes, they all thought each film was the last but only because they didn't seem to think they were making a franchise. They just thought they were doing "one last film." But then the box office would come in and Paramount would say "let's do another."

I'm sure some of the cast were like family. Some weren't. But that was indeed played up. I also feel some of the crap has been played up to sell books, too.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

And I hate the scene with Uhura in Star Trek 3 for many reasons. It's just such a stupid scene as are most of the scenes with the Starfleet Personnel in Star Trek 3. The entire Starfleet becomes rude insensitive incompetent so that our heroes can look great when they Rebel.

Agreed. It really takes that movie down a few notches for me. Everyone else being ignorant, a jerk, or both doesn't make our heroes look extraordinary by comparison, it just makes us wonder why they joined the organization with all of the jerks in it.

99 out of 100 Junior officers would be sitting there in awe of her -- asking her about all of her adventures with VGER and Khan the Doomsday Machine and the five-year mission

If they knew who she was, that is. I think that others probably knew of Kirk and Spock's involvement in those events, but probably wouldn't realize that Uhura was there until she mentioned that she was on the Enterprise then.

Besides, it's not like Uhura would remember much about the Doomsday Machine anyway, since Lt. Palmer was on duty during that mission.

Well, we think the crews adventures are amazing because they’re the focus of the series. Maybe every starship has that level of activity.

Yeah, I think that's certainly possible.

Nimoy TURNED DOWN the opportunity to reprise the role of Spock in ST:TMP, was eventually talked/lured back into doing it was was the reason Spock was being killed off in STII (IE He requested it because he wanted to be done with the role.)

Yes, primarily because Paramount was holding out in royalty payments for using his image. Once Paramount settled, Nimoy joined the cast for TMP.

Yup. And Paramount settled the lawsuit because they wanted Nimoy in the movie and realized it might not be a hit without him.

Nope, he didn't request it, Harve Bennett suggested it to him to pique his interest. Because Nimoy had such a rotten time on TMP, he chose to stay out of TWOK until Bennett gave him something interesting to chew on - "a great death scene." Nimoy didn't want Spock to be "just there." He wanted the character to do something and retain his dignity. This isn't a guy who resented the series or hated the role: he just wanted the be challenged as an actor and to have the character treated with respect.

Exactly. Nimoy was looking for a good story hook, and he got it.

Eisner thought Nimoy demanded Spock be killed because he hated Star Trek. Nimoy assured him that no such clause was in his contract.

And Nimoy told Eisner to pull his STII contract on file to check. No reason to just take Nimoy's word for it when you have the actual contracts in the same building as you.

 

[Commishsleer]

I do think the security guard disrespecting Sulu was odd, since Sulu was still an active officer and outranked him by a mile, but I rather liked the unintentional disrespect of the junior officer. TOS had plenty of comedy and that one was no worse than the others.

The issue for me is that the writers didn't really think through the escape that well. I'm sure there were dozens of canon ways established throughout TOS that could have ended the attempt. In the novelisation, it's actually Uhura who enables the escape by scrambling Starfleet communications and she had to stay behind to run interference with security. It's a shame that she didn't get enough credit in what we saw on screen.

Yes there was a lot of disrespect for Kirk and his crew in this. The very crew that saved the Earth in Tmp. McCoy was being sent to the 'Federation funny farm".For goodness sake. Why was he in a security cell. You'd think he'd have the top doctors working on his post traumatic stress disorder.

Iagree the whole escape really doesn't make sense. If they want to take McCoy to Vulcan why can't they - surely they could hitch a ride with Sarek? They could get Sarek to send a ship from Vulcan to pick up Spock's body. they could have used that sweet shuttle that Spock used in TMP.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I agree the whole escape really doesn't make sense. If they want to take McCoy to Vulcan why can't they - surely they could hitch a ride with Sarek? They could get Sarek to send a ship from Vulcan to pick up Spock's body. they could have used that sweet shuttle that Spock used in TMP.

IIRC, that Vulcan shuttle was just a one-man vehicle. As in, basically just a coffin attached to a warp sled. Surely too crowded for five people.

This is just after the fact supposition and not anything that the movie makes clear at all, but maybe they took the Enterprise because time was of the essence. Like, maybe the facility where McCoy was being held was also located in Spacedock and it was faster to steal the Enterprise than to try to hire another ship or hitch a ride with Sarek.

But of course, the real reasson is that because they wanted to blow up the Enterprise so that there would be a price paid for Spock's resurrection. But yeah, they should've justified in the screenplay a bit more that taking the Enterprise was their only option left.

 

[Henoch]

This is just after the fact supposition and not anything that the movie makes clear at all, but maybe they took the Enterprise because time was of the essence. Like, maybe the facility where McCoy was being held was also located in Spacedock and it was faster to steal the Enterprise than to try to hire another ship or hitch a ride with Sarek.

As we find out after the fact, if Kirk would have been a few hours later than he did, Planet Genesis would have blown up along with David, Saavik and Spock. Good thing Kirk is very energetic once he decides on a course of action.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

As we find out after the fact, if Kirk would have been a few hours later than he did, Planet Genesis would have blown up along with David, Saavik and Spock. Good thing Kirk is very energetic once he decides on a course of action.

Kirk's main advantage is that he has the screenwriters on his side.

 

[Marsden]

Agreed. It really takes that movie down a few notches for me. Everyone else being ignorant, a jerk, or both doesn't make our heroes look extraordinary by comparison, it just make us wonder why they joined the organization with all of the jerks in it.

I agree with this 100%. This is the biggest negative for the movie for me, there are some other issues I have but when the fabric of the universe that the story is set in is flawed, even a great story is harmed, and this wasn't a great story.

I don't know if this was a conscience decision on the screen writers part but every single Federation/Starfleet individual besides our heroes were just bad.

 

[Pauln6]

I agree with this 100%. This is the biggest negative for the movie for me, there are some other issues I have but when the fabric of the universe that the story is set in is flawed, even a great story is harmed, and this wasn't a great story.

I don't know if this was a conscience decision on the screen writers part but every single Federation/Starfleet individual besides our heroes were just bad.

Maybe S31 took over due to the sensitive nature of Genesis? Those guys are jerks.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I recall on Nimoy's commentary on TSFS he talked about how he wanted the Grissom crew to come off as "pretenders to the throne." That was why he picked the pink chairs for the Grissom bridge.

So yeah, making everyone else in Starfleet a jerk or incompetent was definitely conscious in that movie. Thankfully, Nimoy didn't continue that trend into TVH.

 

[Grant]

yeah when you're listening to the commentary of Nimoy for Star Trek 3 he starts to mention the pink seats and then he slowly Trails off and stops. Like he didn't really think that sounded good as he was saying it. LOL.
Kind of like saying oh look they're wussies they have pink seats"
if you read the script you can see that in the editing they made Captain Esteban even more incompetent. In the script he calls for raising the shields as soon as he sees the bird of prey decloaking. But I guess that sounded like something a competent officer would do.
Unlike every other Star Trek movie with Star Trek 3 I simply love Parts in the movie and I despise other parts

 

[Ssosmcin]

I don’t want to spend a lot of time taking apart the movies. They were generally inferior to the original series, but they hold an extremely special place in my heart.

They were the return of my all-time favorite TV series, and characters. Even if they were not quite the same as they had been before, I loved each of their adventures as they unfolded in front of me on the big screen.

Could have been better? Sure. Should they have been better considering they had more time to write them than the average episode of the TV series? Absolutely. However, almost nobody from the original series creative staff was involved, and so knowledge of the show was dictated by people who marathon watched episodes at the time. Add the actors who wanted to justify their return, not to mention exercise their newly inflated clout. Also consider that they wanted to please the fans who had elevated even the most minor of characters, to a really high level.

Considering all of that, I think they turned out pretty damn good. Some better than others but I was always thrilled when I finally saw the previews for the newest Trek film.