Kira Nerys - one of the best Trek characters ever?
- Thread starter Kilana2
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I've been rewatching DS9 as my treadmill-distraction show. I saw "Battle Lines" earlier this week. Kira had some incredible moments in that episode, mourning over the body of Kai Opaka, and subsequently seeking comfort from the undead Opaka. Those scenes really stood out to me as exceptional because of the emotion that Nana brought to them.
Kira is herself conflicted about her history as a terrorist/freedom fighter. That backstory alone makes her one of the more complex Star Trek characters. And Nana Visitor is really good.
Kira is herself conflicted about her history as a terrorist/freedom fighter. That backstory alone makes her one of the more complex Star Trek characters. And Nana Visitor is really good.
i never appreciated kira until i started rewatching DS9 to introduce it to my husband this fall. she stood out to us both as a character way ahead of her time. my younger self was just not that interested in the bajorans so i kind of ignored kira, but as an adult, i'm really loving how badass she is and how clearly her character is drawn and how she changes and grows over the seasons. she might now be my favorite DS9 character, sorry dax.
I watched "Progress" yesterday, another great episode for Kira in season 1. There's a moment where Sisko tells her, "you're on the other side now," and she looks absolutely devastated. It's just a great little moment (in a strong episode) of her dealing with the transition from freedom fighter to government official.
Greatest character ever?
Someone asked John Lennon if Ringo was the greatest drummer in Rock and Roll. John responded "He's not even the greatest drummer in the Beatles".
Kira is abrasive, rude, self-serving, and filled with hostility, so much so, when her character was supposed to look amorous or vulnerable, it just made me cringe. She wasn't strong, she was just hostile. She even treated her friends like crap. The only positive things I can say about her personality was her unwavering loyalty to Sisko as her commander and her Emissary, and her faith in the Prophets. She deserved Odo, because he was just as bad. Entirely self-absorbed, condescending, and I could see the contempt he held for humanoids from a mile away. Quark was a PITA, but I didn't care for the way they treated him. So much for "tolerance", huh?
I don't think there is a "greatest character", because the characters are all too different, something great about them and something not so great about them.
Favorite characters:
These are my favorite "ensemble" characters that I feel were most interesting and could carry a complex story line (in no particular order):
Seven
Tuvok
Worf
EMH
Spock
Sisko
Data
T'Pol
Other notable ensemble characters that I feel could contribute or in some cases carry a complex story line (in no particular order):
Kirk
Tucker
Picard
Janeway
Phlox
Archer
Quark
Chakotay
These are "ensemble" characters that I feel were inferior characters, or poorly cast characters, or poorly acted. I feel they did not carry or contribute to complex stories. The worst of them actually took something away from the stories:
Neelix
Kes*
Kira
Bashir (Possibly the worst character on every account)***
Yar
Troi
Beverly Crusher
LaForge*
Odo**
* These had their moments. Kes ran out of gas quickly, and probably would have made a better recurring character, LaForge... well, I think Burton really couldn't act.
** The character was just so negative, self-important, self-centered and had nothing but contempt for humanoids from day one. Rene did a great job acting, the character could be interesting, but I just didn't like the character much. I think they could have done more with him, and didn't care for the whole love affair with Kira thing. The nail-in-the-coffin was when the future Odo sent the shuttle back so Kira would live, at the expense of all the other lives. Had to be done somehow... but it showed this character could not and would not see beyond the end of his own nose, e.g. self-interest.
*** When this jackass sneers his self-righteous sneer at someone, I have to fight myself to turn off the episode. I hate this character on every possible level. I find the actor to be very hard to look at, and even harder to listen to. I usually fast forward his scenes. The scene that disgusts me the most: When he wouldn't give the "bio-mimetic gel" to Sisko in "In the Pale Moonlight".
Someone asked John Lennon if Ringo was the greatest drummer in Rock and Roll. John responded "He's not even the greatest drummer in the Beatles".
Kira is abrasive, rude, self-serving, and filled with hostility, so much so, when her character was supposed to look amorous or vulnerable, it just made me cringe. She wasn't strong, she was just hostile. She even treated her friends like crap. The only positive things I can say about her personality was her unwavering loyalty to Sisko as her commander and her Emissary, and her faith in the Prophets. She deserved Odo, because he was just as bad. Entirely self-absorbed, condescending, and I could see the contempt he held for humanoids from a mile away. Quark was a PITA, but I didn't care for the way they treated him. So much for "tolerance", huh?
I don't think there is a "greatest character", because the characters are all too different, something great about them and something not so great about them.
Favorite characters:
These are my favorite "ensemble" characters that I feel were most interesting and could carry a complex story line (in no particular order):
Seven
Tuvok
Worf
EMH
Spock
Sisko
Data
T'Pol
Other notable ensemble characters that I feel could contribute or in some cases carry a complex story line (in no particular order):
Kirk
Tucker
Picard
Janeway
Phlox
Archer
Quark
Chakotay
These are "ensemble" characters that I feel were inferior characters, or poorly cast characters, or poorly acted. I feel they did not carry or contribute to complex stories. The worst of them actually took something away from the stories:
Neelix
Kes*
Kira
Bashir (Possibly the worst character on every account)***
Yar
Troi
Beverly Crusher
LaForge*
Odo**
* These had their moments. Kes ran out of gas quickly, and probably would have made a better recurring character, LaForge... well, I think Burton really couldn't act.
** The character was just so negative, self-important, self-centered and had nothing but contempt for humanoids from day one. Rene did a great job acting, the character could be interesting, but I just didn't like the character much. I think they could have done more with him, and didn't care for the whole love affair with Kira thing. The nail-in-the-coffin was when the future Odo sent the shuttle back so Kira would live, at the expense of all the other lives. Had to be done somehow... but it showed this character could not and would not see beyond the end of his own nose, e.g. self-interest.
*** When this jackass sneers his self-righteous sneer at someone, I have to fight myself to turn off the episode. I hate this character on every possible level. I find the actor to be very hard to look at, and even harder to listen to. I usually fast forward his scenes. The scene that disgusts me the most: When he wouldn't give the "bio-mimetic gel" to Sisko in "In the Pale Moonlight".
Giving the bio-mimetic gel to someone who wasn't going to use it for medical purposes is presumably against regulations. When a CO orders someone to violate regulations, there's a long tradition in the service of asking for, and getting, written orders. That way the ensuing court-martial blames the right person.
He never threatened to not give him the gel, he just wanted his objection noted, and wanted a paper trail for his own protection.
It would be like Sisko suddenly asking for Bashir's entire supply Morphine without any explanation, or worse, it might be like asking Bashir for samples of the smallpox virus.
It would be like Sisko suddenly asking for Bashir's entire supply Morphine without any explanation, or worse, it might be like asking Bashir for samples of the smallpox virus.
It wasn't the fact he questioned the order, or asked for it in writing. It was the entire way the scene was acted. The look of contempt on that ugly perpetual 5-oclock shadow puss, that stupid accent (yes, I know it's real... KAH-MAN-DAH)... his know-it all attitude about everything.... It's how he plays every scene. Blehhhhcccccck.
I can see Bones, EMH or Phlox, or even Beverly Crusher playing this scene he same way... Still annoying... I think I just dislike this actor. I don't fast forward anyone else's scenes except his and james Sloyan.
Lennon said no such thing. That line was from an old comedy bit done after Lennon died.
As for Kira... she had her moments but I don't consider her one of Trek's best characters. Middle of the road, maybe a bit above average, for me.
Yeah, he did. It's on the "The Complete Get Back Sessions" bootleg, 3:18:04. Paul had removed Ringo's drumming from several tracks on "The Beatles" (White Album). Ringo's departure kind of ticked everyone off, and this was mentioned later during the "Get Back" tapes. Now, it's possible John was repeating this "joke". of that I can't be sure, but it was said in direct sarcastic reference to Paul drumming on several songs.
"Ringo left the band while recording The White Album for a number of reasons. In Anthology, he described feeling like his playing wasn't that great. There were reports of Paul heavily criticizing him during these sessions, and replacing Ringo's drumming with his own on a number of tracks. Ringo rounded up his family and flew to Italy for a holiday. "
As for Kira, I agree she had her moments. But then she had her moments, too. People complain about the Seven/Chakotay pairing, which I have zero problems with, I've seen stranger things, but somehow they tolerate the Odo/Kira pairing which makes no sense to me at all.
I've yet to see any source corroborate that but it's been debunked countless times.
I completely agree about Seven/Chakotay and Kira/Odo though.
That seems unlikely as the joke apparently originates from 1981, when Lennon was already dead.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/john-lennon-ringo-best-drummer/
In that case, It originated in 1968, during the recording of the White Album. I have it on tape in John's own voice, but whatever. Anyone can print anything.
He was an augment, so it fits perfectly
Ugh. He was.. a boring, poorly cast character that they couldn't figure out what to do with. I hate it when they "retcon" a character right before your eyes.
This is why the "Kes" situation bothers me. If they couldn't figure out what to do with her, they should have just lessened her role instead of trying to make her more interesting with all those retconned Psychokinetic powers. They defied the entire plot of the series. With all these abilities, the Ocampa should have been able to heal the planet, and defend themselves against the Kazon. Instead they "forgot" they had these abilities, and became completely dependent on the caretaker. That itself is more unlikely than someone having the ability to manipulate matter with the mind in the first place.
Bashir was the same way... I bought into none of that retcon. Both he and O'Brien contributed little to the ensemble, so they gave them ridiculous or insignificant things to do. O'Brien was better when he was used as a supporting actor who got the lead once in a great while. But Bashir... all that Augment/Section 31/Vic Fontaine nonsense was. IMO wasted screen time, and the worst of Trek.
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You should let them know so they can update the article. (Not being sarcastic. I have no knowledge on the matter.) Push back against disinformation.
And point them to a bootleg of the "Get Back" Sessions?
My only truly unsolved Beatles "controversy" Is the validity of a recording of Paul singing "I want you/She's so Heavy" that I have on a bootleg. Many think it's a fake, others don't. The only reason I find it plausible that it might be real is that John really wanted to sing "Oh! Darling". He loved the song, and felt that he would do a better job singing it.
If Paul entertained the notion of letting John sing it, he might have experimented with singing lead vocals on one of John's songs, it wasn't unheard of, they sang lead on songs the other mostly wrote more than a few times...
Anyway back to Kira b4 the mods have a hissy.
I'm interested in trivia about the Beatles too, but maybe there's a more appropriate forum?
