as I made clear, those stormtroopers are not the problem. It's all the actions that were taken and or done that leads people to perceive the agenda .. not one single aspect.
And yet instead of seeing that.. you'd rather just attack me. Thanks
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And yet instead of seeing that.. you'd rather just attack me. Thanks
How did I attack you?
I'm suggesting there isn't anywhere near the "problem" you claim there is. Fans aren't actually in uproar, we aren't walking away with a bad taste in our mouths and yet you keep trying to tell us we are.
We had a poll about the Mary Sue thing recently and guess what? The fans (of which there are quite a few here) didn't exactly vote as you would seem to predict.
The agenda of being more inclusive? Featuring more characters who aren't white dudes? People who perceive that as problematic are the ones who have a problem.
And the force being female? Coming from a language with grammatical gender the force ("die macht") has always been female (or feminine, whatever) and generations of boys have grown up talking about her powers and how awesome she is without having their masculinity damaged from using female pronouns.
And yes, I know that's not what you meant, I acknowledge that just like you acknowledge that it was a Nike slogan. If you can use it to make a different point so can I.
Interesting how the force is based on various concepts such as chi, Qi, prana, mana and their applications in various martial practises, practises which are almost inevitably soft/internal styles which emphasise the balance between the passive and the aggressive, the yin and the yang, the feminine and the masculine....
there is a difference between diversity and forced diversity. There is a difference between inclusion and pandering. SW was targeted at specific demographics, but it was a sound story, well told with universal themes and wound up pleasing people outside of the target. But when you try to change the target, you could alienate the core fans, and you might not succeed in actually garnering the new fans you think you have. The media is starting to realize that
Yet the core fans largely don't seem to be alienated, which is what people keep trying to point out to you.
Yet they do.. there are a LOT of fans that are not coming back.
I think you're really reaching here. I think there is a certain loud sect of fandom who is very upset with the direction the series is taking.
Yeah, I don't know that I ever believe it when fans say they aren't coming back. First, they're still talking about it. Two years later. They want to know how this ends, one way or another. Second, there's the whole FOMO factor. Besides, define "a LOT." I'm sure, yes, some have walked away. But I don't for a moment believe the movie will suffer that much because of fans still being pissed off.
A lot of people didn't come back after The Phantom Menace, the box office dropped from over a billion to 650 million for ATOC. It happens wether a franchise has a more diverse cast or not.
I really don't see this forced diversity you're speaking of. In what way is it forced?
The Last Jedi cast (I'm only counting major characters with visible human faces):
Luke, Kylo, Hux: white men
Leia, Rey, Holdo: white women
Finn: black man
Poe: latino man
Rose: asian woman
That's 6 white people vs. 3 non white people and 5 men vs. 4 women. A third of the characters are still white men. How is having a few non white characters and an almost even male:female ratio forced? Technically it could be argued that it isn't diverse enough.
Of course because you say it, you are always right. And how telling is it that if the movie succeeds at all, it will be for any of the reasons you mentioned. They have a clusterfuk on their hands that can only succeed due to fans' morbid curiosity.
Man, chill out, dude. If you're talking to me, I'm voicing an opinion, just like you're voicing yours. We don't all have to agree. I'm not attacking you. I'm just asking you to consider other perspectives. I could be wrong. I hope I'm not. But I don't understand the constant necessity for doom and gloom and when someone tries to challenge you, playing the martyr.
my apologies
You're obviously very passionate about your opinions and that's fine. But just realize that particularly here, we don't all agree that The Last Jedi was the worst thing to happen to humanity. Just take a breath, man. We're talking about movies here, not some cataclysmic world-changing event.
Over something like that...good riddance?
Can we not give credence to false and illegitimate viewpoints by referring to them as "opinions"?
Yes, there are likely some people out there who will boycott TRoS because they hated The Last Jedi, but that boycott will have about as much effect on the film's success as a fly would fighting against an elephant, and claiming otherwise - even in the guise of an "opinion" - is being blatantly disingenuous and peddling a false and illegitimate narrative.
Yes, there are likely some people out there who will boycott TRoS because they hated The Last Jedi, but that boycott will have about as much effect on the film's success as a fly would fighting against an elephant, and claiming otherwise - even in the guise of an "opinion" - is being blatantly disingenuous and peddling a false and illegitimate narrative.
But... the last SW film.. flopped
No.
Solo didn't earn the amount of money that it was expected to, but calling it a "flop" is being disingenuous....
As is attributing the lack of interest in it to over-exaggerated "fan" outrage.
Solo didn't do great in comparison to other entries in Star Wars. And we have no idea how TRoS is going to do. We haven't seen tracking on the movie in a month. At that point, it was still tracking for a good opening. That does not necessarily mean that it will do well overall, but at this point, Solo could be a box office anomaly as opposed to a sign of continued diminishing box office results. In other words, let's just wait and see.
How many is a lot?
Seems to me you're very determined to make your case but would benefit (as I keep trying to suggest) in considering the weight of the evidence. This is a sci fi forum and specifically a sub forum devoted to SW and the ST. Yet even here amongst what could arguably be considered a sample of the fanbase there's really not of evidence of a massive pushback against the films.
We had the "Mary Sue" poll and the outcome was clear, an overwhelming majority either disagreed or simply didn't care. Likewise here in this thread the majority of hard core (and casual) fans are largely non plussed at being informed that we are involved in a mass boycott of the franchise. Somehow most of us seem not to have got the memo.
You didn't care for the ST films thus far and that's fair enough, but to assert "the fans" did not is projecting and I'd be very wary of reading too much into vocal Youtubers who claim to speak for us.
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