Or maybe the divergence was about the logical life as they claim, & the forehead ridges came from millennia of pissed off & emotional grimaces
Ambassador T'Pel
- Thread starter Nyotarules
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And of course it makes sense that we can hang in a space battle with a species that's had space flight at least 2,000 years longer than we have.
Don't look at the man behind the curtain! I think you are correct.
KIRK: Mister Chekov, there's only one Vulcan aboard that ship. He should be easy enough to locate.
CHEKOV: Romulans and Vulcans appear to read almost exactly alike. There is just a slight difference which.
The way Vulcans mind meld and have low level telepathic sensations, I'd doubt any Romulan could pass among Vulcans at all, but non-Vulcans wouldn't notice these things.
So basically don't let facts interfere with the story, sadly that applies to many of these episodes.
If they are genetically identical, wouldn't their body anatomy and chemistry follow the same processes as well ? I mean, I know circumstances can influence processes but only to a certain level. Yet we have this fragment from The Defector:
(Crusher is treating the defecting Romulan for a neck wound, supposedly inflicted on him during the chase by the Romulan Warbird)
To me that sounds as if their biology was significantly different from the Vulcan one, after all, healing him would have been a case of applying (relatively) common knowledge had it been the same.
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Not necessarily - this "Setal" guy, that is, Admiral Jarok, could have assumed Crusher wasn't up to speed on treating Vulcanoids in general. After all, why would she be? McCoy wasn't, despite having Spock to deal with. And despite possessing considerable intelligence, that is, data, on the heroes, Jarok need not have known that there were several Vulcans Crusher would routinely treat aboard the E-D. Or, conversely, if Jarok had accurate intel, he would assume Doctor Selar was the one who'd know a Vulcanoid liver from a Vulcanoid upper spleen.
It's just a matter of Jarok not choosing to call himself Vulcan when the synonym Romulan so readily presents itself...
Timo Saloniemi
It's just a matter of Jarok not choosing to call himself Vulcan when the synonym Romulan so readily presents itself...
Timo Saloniemi
Why wouldn't Beverly have simply said so instead of "I had a chance to gain some experience recently"? It's not as if the presence of those Vulcans aboard would be any secret. Now of course it's again possible to think of complicated explanations for that ("She wanted to gauge his first reaction to the Galorndon Core Incident to get an indication of how trustworthy he was"), etc, etc, but still ...
Hrm ... that actually sounds somewhat plausible, except for the fact that I don't see Beverly doing it.
Perhaps. Then again.I would find it weird if Beverly didn't have some multi-species knowledge. She's the head medic of the Federation flagship that is bound to meet all kinds of aliens, of both known species (such as Vulcans, an important presence in the Federation and apparently the " Vulcanoid" prototype) and entirely new ones. She would be highly likely to have detailed knowledge of at least a few alien species, even if only as a solid base for more advanced comparative physiology, biochemistry, etc. which she would need in treating entirely new aliens. (Just as many professional linguists aren't absolutely required to know multiple languages, but many still do. Or many (not all) mathematicians are still good at ordinary arithmetic, even though it is not a requirement) So I still would think it quite likely for her to have a good knowledge of Vulcanoids.
And if you say that it wouldn't be humanly possible to have that much knowledge... well.... these people habitually seem to do calculus around age seven or so....
I doesn't matter about genetics really, if one group of people are vegetarians that live in a hot arid climate and another are omnivores and live in a colder environment, body chemistry would be different within years, much less centuries.
Even assuming they were all one race to begin with and not another race that left Vulcan, the fact they are in that different environment for so long would certainly make differences a detailed scan would show immediately. How much calcium is in their bones, how much copper is in their blood, is copper as common on Romulus and many Romulans show "anemic" compared to Vulcans and so on.
The way this episode is presented all they need is a little latex and make up to pass as a Vulcan. No mention of physiology or mental abilities.
Even assuming they were all one race to begin with and not another race that left Vulcan, the fact they are in that different environment for so long would certainly make differences a detailed scan would show immediately. How much calcium is in their bones, how much copper is in their blood, is copper as common on Romulus and many Romulans show "anemic" compared to Vulcans and so on.
The way this episode is presented all they need is a little latex and make up to pass as a Vulcan. No mention of physiology or mental abilities.
I mean, Talok has a romulan head ridge, so he's probably genetically romulan.
I pretend the head ridges are there just for audience discernment, and they actually look rather identical. 2,000 years in a different environment would/could/might give them some different features like height average, eye shape, range of skin tones, etc. It would not give them a giant protruding V shape on their foreheads.
Also, 2,000 years to Vulcans is roughly comparable to 1,000 years for us in terms of the number of generations. A thousand years is not all that long. I can trace my father's family back about 500 years, and it's only about 18 generations.
Also, 2,000 years to Vulcans is roughly comparable to 1,000 years for us in terms of the number of generations. A thousand years is not all that long. I can trace my father's family back about 500 years, and it's only about 18 generations.
The scene does play out as if Crusher laid a little trap there, as she immediately points out that knowledge of the incident would be surprising for a man of Setal's position.
She of course would be well versed, having also patched up LaForge after her son rescued the two men. So she might simply find "Setal's" nonhostile tone of voice downright insulting and quip back, only then jumping to Starfleet Intel mode.
The same applies to McCoy, really - but it's not surprising that an obvious need would not easily translate into a capacity. Heck, since it does seem implausible for a single person to be capable of covering all of Homo sapiens, let alone two or more species, it should be pointed out that only the EMH has ever demonstrated true multispecies skills, that is, the ability to dive in without first diving into a pile of books.
No doubt Crusher could bring herself up to speed by consulting a somewhat less bodily version of an expert program, and Jarok could mistake that for skill. On the other hand, practical skill, rather than abstract knowledge, seems to be what "Setal" is commenting on, from the receiving end.
Or then the ridges are also found on Vulcan. Which is what I mean about this whole ambiguity thing: we see and hear of attributes that aren't uniquely identified as either Vulcan or Romulan, save for the logic religion thing which is at least heavily implied not to be a Romulan attribute. Things like ridges and melds and pon farr and T-negative blood are wholly up in the air. Which sort of leaves "Romulan" up there as well.
Naturally, we're supposed to tell Romulans apart by their ridges, that is, the ridges exist for that purpose. But we are also expected to accept and recognize Romulans without ridges. So the out-universe intent does not really translate into any sort of in-universe rules.
Timo Saloniemi
Then why would he hide them when pretending to be a Vulcan?
Federation Starfleet ships may look like Earth Starfleet ships but also have all tech learned from 150 member worlds, including Vulcan and Andorian, so it sounds okay to me.
False mustache, fake scar? No need to do intricate surgery when a single blatant change will confuse the eyewitnesses.
Although I still hang on to the facial erection theory: bulging forehead ridges are all the rage on a planet where exhibiting rage is socially desirable, but not on a planet where it is not, and Vulcans pride themselves on their ability to remain flaccid even during the blood fever.
Timo Saloniemi
It's not canon, of course, but it could be a variation on how the Romulan migration worked in one of Diane Duanes' novels ( "Spocks World" I believe?), via sublight generational ships? And then centuries of establishing themselves on Romulus.
I don't know any of the hypothetical history of the Romulan Empire (I don't read Star Trek books), but its culture seems to be so paranoid, that I could imagine that its ruling classes would consider technological developments undesirable because it could only shift the internal balance of power to someone else than them. So perhaps the Romulan empire stayed stagnant for centuries, and they were only forced into their current "tech race" when the Federation started expanding and advancing rapidly.
After all Spock made it sound like the Romulans were no more advanced than the forces of Earth (not 'the Federation'!), a century before Balance of Terror.
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Vulcan was a whole planet, capable of launching the Romulan exodus. It lost warp flight for centuries in the war. Romulus would be just that exodus. They might lack the resources to maintain the means by which they got across that distance, and the means to recover those resources. Perhaps it would take two thousand years for them to have a working industrial base, after which they'd dust off the old manuals and build warp-capable warships in a month or two.
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
Maybe Romulan tech was more concentrated towards genetics (would make sense, with all the cloning, or what happened to Troi.) The bunch that left to found Romulus could have had some minor differences to start that become emphasized and could have been intentionally genetically enhanced to survive on Romulus or for cultural reasons.
If so, that would also make it trivial for them to pass off one of their own as a Vulcan.
If so, that would also make it trivial for them to pass off one of their own as a Vulcan.
