Production Order Group Viewing 2018

[johnnybear]

I don't think Blish was picking them. I'd say he was getting a box of scripts in the mail, one book's worth, and if the studio liked the resulting book, they'd send him the next box. And of course, we're told he fell into a deep depression and couldn't work at some point, but they needed that money, so his wife and her mother secretly took over the writing and finished the series.

I thought his wife completed the final book and that was only after his death?
JB

 

[Ssosmcin]

All I’ve heard is that his wife and his mother in law were helping out with some stories after something like Star Trek 6 or Star Trek 8. And then JA Lawrence said later that he wrote Mudds Women and she did the rest in Mudd’s Angels. She might have said I, Mudd as well but I’m going by memory.

 

[Henoch]

Serving on a starship is exciting and rewarding, also highly stressful and often lonely.

By taking this journey, I feel that I just served on the Enterprise with our heroes. Wow, I feel good; "it was fun", to quote Kirk.
Highest thanks to both @Mytran and @Poltargyst for this excellent review thread!

 

[Pauln6]

Darn it though, just short of 100 pages. Someone say something controversial.

 

[Mytran]

I agree with many of the summing up sentiments expressed above. Thanks to all involved; it's been a fantastic project that has really helped me connect to TOS in a new way.

The first season is still my favourite. I was surprised as to how much Shore Leave bored me this time round. Perhaps just because it was surrounded by so many heavy hitters?
The second season, despite being lauded by many as when TOS really hit its stride had far more formulaic episodes than I was aware of (and Kirk did wear his wraparound a lot). Lots of recycled plot elements too, but some real classic stories in there too.
The third season had a lot of really high concept ideas but most of them were not properly developed. The season started strong but was really treading water by the end.

Darn it though, just show 100 pages. Someone say something controversial.

So I take it there's no interest in moving onto The Animated Series then? We could easily break the 100 page mark with that!
If I don't hear any agreement on TAS I'll start a new thread, so as to leave this one for future commentators to share their thoughts on.

 

[Henoch]

I'm game with TAS.

 

[Marsden]

This is really affecting me. I'm really feeling the "loss" of a continuing story. I know it's not a surprise and a feel a bit embarrassed to admit it but it's put me into a kind of down turn. I really like TAS but it's just not "the same" although I'd be happy to go through those as well.

One thing I really enjoyed this time around was either seeing things I didn't notice before, even though I'd seen everything so many times already, or even better the comments that made me think of things I never thought of before.

@Mytran 's question about "what is that thing for" is something I never really thought about. Could it have been something left from another settlement of the Old Ones that made Ruk?
Was it ever meant to transfer "consciences" or is that an evil use that Janice came up with herself. It worked on Gilligan's Island, right? I could easily see the person, dare I say woman, that killed her whole staff to make a false distress call seem real had used them for experiments before hand.
Maybe those people that made that transferred themselves into their clones to keep a healthy body far past many lifetimes, or is that too Zardoz?

Another thing about Janice, I wonder if at one time she and Janet from The Deadly Years and Carol Marcus were all the same character that started out as a lab technician. No, not the final versions but a draft version, (like Saavik was supposed to be in the conspiracy in TUC) Ruth, also. There seems some similarities there to me that they thought better of and changed things but didn't quite change it all. It would certainly make the timeline simpler.

I don't think security would have blindly followed Lester-Kirk but like a ticking countdown it's a source of tension for the characters that security is the captain's brute squad now. Security was barely involved in any of this episode.

I also wanted to start a new separate thread to list all of the times Uhura was in command. How's that @Pauln6?
I also mean before TAS. Too bad there was no, "you're in command Uhura" scenes but she was certainly in command at least twice and I have to go back and check if there was a third time.

Unfortunately, every time I start a thread it's a dud. So I'm reluctant to do that.

 

[Poltargyst]

Except, now that I think about it "Miri's planet kids (bonk bonk)" should also be classed as "remarkably human looking"

How many former girlfriends does Kirk have? Carol Marcus, Ruth, Janice Lester, Areel Shaw, Helen Noel (not really). Did I miss anyone?

Janet Wallace ("The Deadly Years") and possibly Helen Johansson (mentioned in "The Menagerie Part I").

Good calls. Kirk did get around, just not as much during the 5 year mission as his reputation suggests.

 

[Henoch]

Do we know whether Janice Lester was a starfleet officer? Here's her background story:

The Enterprise has received a distress call from a group of scientists on Camus Two, who are exploring the ruins of a dead civilization. Their situation is desperate. Two of the survivors are the expedition surgeon, Doctor Coleman, and the leader of the expedition, Doctor Janice Lester.​

So, instead of the officer track in Starfleet, she's got a doctorate in possibly archaeology, and she's the expedition leader. Also:

JANICE: The year we were together at Starfleet is the only time in my life I was alive.
KIRK: I never stopped you from going on with your space work.​

This paints the picture that they were both in Starfleet, him for Starship service and her for "her space work" which doesn't sound like Starship service, rather both pieces of the puzzle suggest Lester was in the sciences for archaeology on planet expeditions rather than a ship-born assignment.

JANICE: Your world of starship captains doesn't admit women. It isn't fair.
KIRK: No, it isn't. And you punished and tortured me because of it.
JANICE: I loved you. We could've roamed among the stars.​

I'm convinced that "your world of starship..." only applies to Kirk not wanting to get tied down in a serious relation or marriage since his goal was to be a Starship Captain and he knew a relationship could threaten that goal, and he agrees with it. She never wanted to be a Starship Captain, she just didn't want Kirk to be a Captain so they could be together. Fifteen years later and she's bitter(crazy?) and takes revenge of Kirk for her unhappiness.

If both of them wanted to be Captains, then how in the hell would they roam among the stars together on separate ships? Any ship-born posting would keep them apart. No, Lester expected Kirk to quit his career path and join hers as scientists exploring ancient civilizations, etc. Remember, Kirk's brother Sam was some sort of a scientist, so, it probably runs in his family...maybe young Jim Kirk saw the affects of marriage on his older brother's career choices...stuck on an obscure planet doing boring work. Not me!

 

[mb22]

Good calls. Kirk did get around, just not as much during the 5 year mission as his reputation suggests.

Kirk's 'reputation' is primarily based on the relationships he had with guest star characters, which more often than not were not true romances, but either Kirk trying to get something (e.g. Lenore Karidian, Kelinda), had while temporarily 'out of his mind' (MIrimanee, Elaan), or just a brief episode (Shahna et al). The only two relationships that seemingly made a significant emotional impact seem to be Edith Keeler and Rayna.

 

[johnnybear]

Let's not forget that Miramanee was going to have his child and his bedside last moments with her were killing him almost as much as if he was dying instead of her!
JB

 

[Pauln6]

This is really affecting me. I'm really feeling the "loss" of a continuing story. I know it's not a surprise and a feel a bit embarrassed to admit it but it's put me into a kind of down turn. I really like TAS but it's just not "the same" although I'd be happy to go through those as well.

One thing I really enjoyed this time around was either seeing things I didn't notice before, even though I'd seen everything so many times already, or even better the comments that made me think of things I never thought of before.

@Mytran 's question about "what is that thing for" is something I never really thought about. Could it have been something left from another settlement of the Old Ones that made Ruk?
Was it ever meant to transfer "consciences" or is that an evil use that Janice came up with herself. It worked on Gilligan's Island, right? I could easily see the person, dare I say woman, that killed her whole staff to make a false distress call seem real had used them for experiments before hand.
Maybe those people that made that transferred themselves into their clones to keep a healthy body far past many lifetimes, or is that too Zardoz?

Another thing about Janice, I wonder if at one time she and Janet from The Deadly Years and Carol Marcus were all the same character that started out as a lab technician. No, not the final versions but a draft version, (like Saavik was supposed to be in the conspiracy in TUC) Ruth, also. There seems some similarities there to me that they thought better of and changed things but didn't quite change it all. It would certainly make the timeline simpler.

I don't think security would have blindly followed Lester-Kirk but like a ticking countdown it's a source of tension for the characters that security is the captain's brute squad now. Security was barely involved in any of this episode.

I also wanted to start a new separate thread to list all of the times Uhura was in command. How's that @Pauln6?
I also mean before TAS. Too bad there was no, "you're in command Uhura" scenes but she was certainly in command at least twice and I have to go back and check if there was a third time.

Unfortunately, every time I start a thread it's a dud. So I'm reluctant to do that.

I think logging the times Uhura is in charge is a great idea but something that needs to done during a rewatch, since they all occur off camera. Sigh, I suppose we'll have to start again.

I haven't seen (or at least don't remember) most episodes of TAS but I don't own them either. Maybe I need to think about subscribing to a streaming service to watch them?

 

[Mytran]

I'm game with TAS.

I thought you would be
I have new thoughts on the "antimatter nacelle" BTW

I really like TAS but it's just not "the same" although I'd be happy to go through those as well.

It's definitely a different take on Trek, but since at the time of release it was presented as a direction continuation of the original series (rather than a reboot or sequel) I'd argue that it has a place in this rewatch thread. And it's not like we'd even need to change the thread title!

I haven't seen (or at least don't remember) most episodes of TAS but I don't own them either. Maybe I need to think about subscribing to a streaming service to watch them?

Netflix carries it in the UK. Alternatively you can buy the Bluray set for £25 from Amazon!
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Star-Trek-Animated-Blu-ray-Region/dp/B01LQ7REOU/ref=asc_df_B01LQ7REOU/

If we're going to do this, we need to be all on the same page to begin with!
I'm not as familiar with the production order of TAS as I am for TOS but going by the production codes from Memory Alpha, this appears to be the viewing list:

• More Tribbles, More Troubles
• The Infinite Vulcan
• Yesteryear
• Beyond the Farthest Star
• The Survivor
• The Lorelei Signal
• One of Our Planets Is Missing
• Mudd's Passion
• The Magicks of Megas-Tu
• The Time Trap
• The Slaver Weapon
• The Ambergris Element
• The Jihad
• The Terratin Incident
• The Eye of the Beholder
• Once Upon a Planet
• Bem
• Albatross
• The Pirates of Orion
• The Practical Joker
• How Sharper Than a Serpent's Tooth
• The Counter-Clock Incident

Production order TAS will be a first for me. I didn't think tribbles would be first!

One final question - do we watch just one episode a week? The reason I ask is that the review podcast Mission Log did two episodes at a time on the assumption that there wouldn't be as much to talk about compared to live-action Trek due to the reduced runtime.
Thoughts, anyone?

 

[Henoch]

One final question - do we watch just one episode a week? The reason I ask is that the review podcast Mission Log did two episodes at a time on the assumption that there wouldn't be as much to talk about compared to live-action Trek due to the reduced runtime.
Thoughts, anyone?

Half the content, and half the time. Two a week is my vote, but slippage to one is okay.

On viewing order: I don't think it really matters. There was no continuity between the animated episodes. With production order, we may see "first use" of artwork, then repetition on the cutting floor (like TOS ship special effects was any better ). I just bought the book, "Star Trek The Animated Series" and it does a decent job in explaining the six-cel filmation process of coping cels and hand painting them. If we do this, we should focus on the story and the visual concepts and not dwell too much on the animation/production processes.

 

[Pauln6]

Rojan was justified in every way.

I said controversial, not obvious, although I'm not sure that jumpsuit was justified.

 

[plynch]

We should all wear jumpsuits as 70s sci-fi more or less predicted.

 

[Mytran]

We should all wear jumpsuits as 70s sci-fi more or less predicted.

I thought we all did - are you saying you don't? You should jump into your flying car and go buy one, at once!

Half the content, and half the time. Two a week is my vote, but slippage to one is okay.

On viewing order: I don't think it really matters. There was no continuity between the animated episodes. With production order, we may see "first use" of artwork, then repetition on the cutting floor (like TOS ship special effects was any better ). I just bought the book, "Star Trek The Animated Series" and it does a decent job in explaining the six-cel filmation process of coping cels and hand painting them. If we do this, we should focus on the story and the visual concepts and not dwell too much on the animation/production processes.

That book has been sitting next to my desk more or less unread since the day I got it, much to my shame I think this rewatch will be the (appropriate only when its man to man) slap on the butt I need to get me to sit down and read it!

As to viewing order - I just think it would be fun to continue the pattern already established. I've seen most of TAS before but not in one straight run - and the order of some of those episodes is different enough from the "broadcast order" to make it worthwhile IMO.
Besides, it may reveal something about the types of stories told, how well they translate onto screen and so forth

 

[Harrison Bergeron]

Sure, why not! Even if I miss the episode I'm sure I can still carry on a conversation. Not like I didn't watch TOS nearly every day for 15 years, LOL

I was probably watching Star Trek before most of you were BORN.

 

[Mytran]

I was probably watching Star Trek before most of you were BORN.

Fantastic - got any thoughts to add regarding the episodes covered so far?

 

[johnnybear]

Most of 'em were pretty good! That's a start!
JB