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Spoilers Batwoman - Season 1

Greg Cox said:
The censors were sleeping that week, I guess.

But, yes, Roddenberry is said to have added the double navel bit to GENESIS II to make up for all the navels he wasn't allowed to show on STAR TREK.
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I was thinking of this discussion when I was watching an episode of The Monkees on MeTV today where they stopped the action and a woman comes in and opens her coat to show her bikini top and navel because the director thought they needed a pretty girl in the show. So not all shows from '66 on NBC had this restriction apparently lol.
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Timestamp 19m25s if my link didn't work.
 
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"Mayor Cobblepot," eh? Is that a nod to The Batman Adventures, Vol. 2 (the B:TAS tie-in comic), to Batman Returns, or to Batman '66: "Hizzoner the Penguin"/"Dizzoner the Penguin"? Or all of the above? The Penguin running for mayor, and occasionally winning, is a recurring trope.

But boo on using "Jack Napier" as the Joker's name. I prefer his real name to be unknown, and I never liked that one. Well, at least they didn't call him Arthur Fleck.

The Executioner reminded me at first of B:TAS's Lock-Up character, even with a similar face and voice -- although they went in a different direction, in that he used penal methods against the corrupt system rather than the inmates.

In the cyanide trap, why didn't Batwoman have a gas mask of some sort in her utility belt?
 
A couple of things:
1) "Cobblepot" doesn't necessarily - or automatically - have to be a reference to The Penguin

2) I don't have an opinion one way or the other on whether The Joker should have a defined origin, but I have always liked Tim Burton's take on the character and can therefore appreciate the decision to pay homage to that version of the story by using the Jack Napier name in connection to him
 
Tuskin38 said:
Also, wouldn't burning the chloride just replace it all with CO2?
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It was hydrogen cyanide, not a chloride. Though you're close on the chemical formula. The basic formula for HCN + O2 gives nitrogen gas, carbon dioxide, and water, though my online search suggests that it's more complicated than that and you'd get nitrogen oxides too, basically smog.
 
Mr. Adventure said:
I was thinking of this discussion when I was watching an episode of The Monkees on MeTV today where they stopped the action and a woman comes in and opens her coat to show her bikini top and navel because the director thought they needed a pretty girl in the show. So not all shows from '66 on NBC had this restriction apparently lol.
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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
Timestamp 19m25s if my link didn't work.
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Fun show, especially the more innovative and (later) laugh track-removed second season but the first wasn't without a few gems, like this:

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An early attempt to sock it to the censors in the early season 2 episode "The Devil and Peter Tork". It helps to know before watching that Peter (and Mike) had musical experience and training before being cast for this show (and fought back when the obvious public backlash over "they don't play their own instruments" took place. And how Micky and Davy did learn, did go on tour, and showed they could do it. Strange they've never gotten into the R&R Hall Of Fame given everything they had to fight against.) Sadly, this was before the laugh track was removed, but it's a great episode nonetheless.

The show hasn't always aged well - but he music has held up well. Especially their third through sixth albums...
 
JD said:
These kind of shows have the hero run into the villain, only to let them go for one reason or another, all the time. I don't really see where Batwoman should be singled out for that.
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True, but we've been told for a couple decades almost how much audiences have had more sophisticated expectations. How come these stories are often more scribbled out than most stuff put out 50 years ago and whose bigger glossy budgets aren't saving them? So now the audience is blamed for having expectations?

Now many one or two shows, which were lambasted at the time, regarding issues like a villain who always comes back for no reason despite being killed or trapped - think "The Master", a problem that occurred in the 1970s, 80s, 90s, and today... but is every show now going to be so "iconic" with a really lame trope? Especially when people were griping time and again during the 1970s, 80s, 90s, and today over sloppy scripting regarding the Master's return (regardless of how good said return was, the two conditions are mutually exclusive). In other words, nothing's changed. Except for how much money one makes these new shows with, thank Star Wars for that. Based on sponsors, who pass the costs down into each unit of product sold, how many people love higher prices for everything the sponsor sells? Everyone always says the customer ends up paying for it all, so there ya go.
 
So last night we had a name drop of jack napier/joker and mayor cobblepot.

Does that put the Michael Keaton's Batman/Bruce Wayne as Kate's uncle?
 
Christopher said:
"Mayor Cobblepot," eh? Is that a nod to The Batman Adventures, Vol. 2 (the B:TAS tie-in comic), to Batman Returns, or to Batman '66: "Hizzoner the Penguin"/"Dizzoner the Penguin"? Or all of the above? The Penguin running for mayor, and occasionally winning, is a recurring trope.
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Or perhaps more recently, Gotham?
 
dodge said:
Bruce is her cousin, not uncle.

I wouldn't read much more into these other than being just fun references.
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I wasn't :)

But I did wonder if there was a time in the comics when the penguin was mayor of Gotham or whether that was purely a Batman Returns event.
 
Marc said:
Does that put the Michael Keaton's Batman/Bruce Wayne as Kate's uncle?
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I don't know if you were serious, but "No".

BTW, I just realized that, in the Arrowverse, The Dark Knight is either a fictionalized documentary of real-life events or a purely fictional story based on real-life people (Bruce Wayne/Batman, Alfred Pennyworth, Lucius Fox, Jack Napier/The Joker, etc.), as are any other Batman-centered films that exist.
 
Cutie McWhiskers said:
Now many one or two shows, which were lambasted at the time, regarding issues like a villain who always comes back for no reason despite being killed or trapped - think "The Master", a problem that occurred in the 1970s, 80s, 90s, and today... but is every show now going to be so "iconic" with a really lame trope? Especially when people were griping time and again during the 1970s, 80s, 90s, and today over sloppy scripting regarding the Master's return (regardless of how good said return was, the two conditions are mutually exclusive).
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Ohh, villains inexplicably returning from seemingly certain death is a much older fictional trope than that. It was a trademark of the Joker going back to the 1940s. Ernst Stavro Blofeld did it more than once in James Bond movies.

The only time I had a problem with the Master coming back from the dead was after "Planet of Fire," where we saw him totally vaporized. But these days I rationalize his resurrections as the result of the power he got from the Source of Traken, which let him reconstitute himself. That's probably how he was able to turn into that blob of goo in the McGann movie, though by that point he could no longer restore his Tremas body and had to steal another one.


Marc said:
I wasn't :)

But I did wonder if there was a time in the comics when the penguin was mayor of Gotham or whether that was purely a Batman Returns event.
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As I mentioned, it happened in The Batman Adventures Vol. 2, based on the Batman: The Animated Series continuity. I think it's happened in some alternate-continuity stories in comics and in games.
 
Marc said:
But I did wonder if there was a time in the comics when the penguin was mayor of Gotham or whether that was purely a Batman Returns event.
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He was mayor in the Geoff Johns' Earth One version, and during Forever Evil crossover, both of those were this decade though. Not sure if he was ever mayor in the comics prior to it, but Batman Returns was inspired by Penguin's run for mayor on the 60's show so technically that's the OG Mayor Penguin story. ;)
 
We saw that there was an "O. Cobblepot" imprisoned at Arkham in the Elseworlds crossover. I suppose we'll just have to take all the names we saw on the cell doors in Arkham as fun little Easter eggs rather than statements of canon.
 
Turtletrekker said:
We saw that there was an "O. Cobblepot" imprisoned at Arkham in the Elseworlds crossover. I suppose we'll just have to take all the names we saw on the cell doors in Arkham as fun little Easter eggs rather than statements of canon.
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We could also take "Mayor Cobblepot" as a reference to a relative of Oswald's and not Oswald himself, or else assume that Oswald had been Mayor but was exposed as a criminal and incarcerated.
 
Christopher said:
Ohh, villains inexplicably returning from seemingly certain death is a much older fictional trope than that. It was a trademark of the Joker going back to the 1940s. Ernst Stavro Blofeld did it more than once in James Bond movies.
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See also Fu Manchu. Heck, the Christopher Lee movies openly acknowledged this by ending every one of his Fu Manchu movies the same way. A fiery cataclysm would consume Fu's secret headquarters and our heroes, who barely escaped the inferno, would look back and say something like:

"He must be dead. Nobody could live through that!"
"I wonder . . . ."

At which point we would get a voiceover of Lee ominously intoning: "The world shall hear from me again."

That being said, if Alice is going to keep getting away, they should stage things so that Batwoman is somehow incapacitated or busy rescuing innocents while Alice escapes. That recent rooftop scene where Kate lets Alice off with nothing more than a stern warning ("If you kill one MORE person . . . . ") didn't work for me. They should have had Batwoman torn between capturing Alice and rescuing some people in an elevator or something.

In fact, it dawns on me that this would make a nice parallel to what happened on the bridge years ago. Batman made the "mistake" of pursuing the Joker (and his hostages) instead of making 100% sure the twins were safe. What happens when Kate finds herself in the same position?
 
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