If Star Trek had been at 20th Century Fox

[Ssosmcin]

If Star Trek were at Fox, they would have spent a lot less on props and set pieces, since Fox was a full fledged movie studio and Desilu pretty much was a small time TV studio/facility rental organization. A lot of the stuff Star Trek had to pay for might have been counted as Fox overhead. Regardless of the stories themselves, most of Irwin Allen's shows looked like a million bucks, primarily because he had the Fox resources to draw from. Special effects probably would have been done in-house. And knowing the Lydecker method, the shots would have been done in-camera against a backdrop. They would look great in HD today, but probably wouldn't have been as dynamic in the angles as what we got. Unless Gene really insisted on them going outside. I could be very wrong, though, the Flying Sub diving and banking in the sky looks incredible even today.

Composers: Gene and or Justman would have hired who they wanted. Irwin's shows went to the library probably because that's what they wanted to do. Land of the Giants never went into the film score library, and only used a tiny handful of John Williams cues from Lost in Space. Lost in Space used film cues, but Voyage and The Time Tunnel leaned heavily on them.

Fox, from what little I know, let Irwin do what he wanted, it was the Networks that made demands. CBS wanted a lighter show and children couldn't be physically threatened. That more than Jonathan Harris changed Lost in Space from a straight and kind of dark SF show to a bright sitcom in space. Over at ABC, they let the other 3 Irwin shows stay "serious" in tone even of the episodes got weird and cheap looking as Voyage in particular went on. CBS still would have passed on Trek since they had LIS already. ABC might have been approached next, and that would have made a difference in how the series turned out. Their needs and standards were different than NBC.

It's really had to say, but fun to think about. The stories probably wouldn't have been as different as we think, maybe more daring. Had it wound up on ABC, they probably would have given it a better time slot. ABC was bigger on the adventure/SF than NBC and tended to program them at hours where the younger audiences could watch. But then again, depending on how early, maybe it would have made a difference. I enjoy the speculation none the less.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Special effects probably would have been done in-house. And knowing the Lydecker method, the shots would have been done in-camera against a backdrop. They would look great in HD today, but probably wouldn't have been as dynamic in the angles as what we got. Unless Gene really insisted on them going outside. I could be very wrong, though, the Flying Sub diving and banking in the sky looks incredible even today.

Not to take "In-house" and "outside" too literally, but if I'm not mistaken, the big Seaview model was filmed outdoors, in a sunlit water tank, for surface shots. The Enterprise, the 11-footer, is so big that I wonder if a Fox Star Trek would have done some of its "all in-camera" shots outdoors, to allow for a huge backdrop painting.

The stars for the hangar deck miniature were done via blue screen...
http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x16/The_Galileo_Seven_022.JPG
...but I can't help wondering if that was a bad choice, done out of habit. A simple backdrop painting would have been cheaper, faster, and a little sharper. This would also be true for shuttlecraft flyby shots. But if the 11-footer was blue screened, there could be a jarring match-up problem.

Another thing:

After Lost in Space was canceled, Irwin Allen ruthlessly re-purposed the Jupiter 2 miniatures, practically destroying them with ugly modifications for City Beneath the Sea. Then the Robot costume was butchered for a kid show called Mystery Island (1977). And we've been talking about what Fox did to the Planet of the Apes mock-up, chopping it down for size, and it ended up as a battered, road-side motel sign:
http://www.goingfaster.com/icarus/billritchiefate.html

It's lucky the Enterprise wasn't carved up and cannibalized for new miniatures and set decorations, or sold off and put to terrible use. Fox let bad things happen to good spaceships, while Paramount saved the Enterprise. Gene Roddenberry asked for the model; he wanted to take it around the country to conventions and speaking engagements. Paramount wouldn't give it to him. The wear and tear, and outright damage sure to occur, would have been potentially fatal. So this is an area where Fox would have been a disaster.

 

[johnnybear]

I never knew the Icarus was in The illustrated Man (1969) and I'm sure I've seen that many years ago!!!
JB

 

[Firebird]

The mid-to-late 60's were an interesting time for Fox. When Gene was shopping the pilot premise around to studios in 1964, Fox was still in rebuild mode after the catastrophic production of Cleopatra quite literally closed down most of the studio. The debt from Cleopatra wouldn't be completely paid off until its sale to television markets in 1966/67. The backstage politics and drama in Hollywood were a sideshow of the very public drama happening in Rome due to Taylor/Burton, and a million other problems cropping up everyday.

Studio founder Darryl F. Zanuck and his son orchestrated a takeover of control over the studio after his absence from 1956-1962, ousting Spyros Skouras, who was instrumental in making multiple terrible decisions that nearly drove the studio into ruin. Even the sale of Fox's backlot to create Century City didn't help to staunch the bleeding (which actually occurred before production on Cleopatra got going, counter to the commonly-accepted myth).

Around early 1964, director William Wyler was dismissed from producing a little musical called The Sound of Music, which the studio was hoping might send the books back into the black. Zanuck asked Robert Wise, who was then in pre-production on The Sand Pebbles, to step in to shepherd SoM and get it done. When the picture came out the following year, it was the hit the studio needed, finally putting the sinking ship above water.

So, taking into account the rough state the studio was in, I tend to think Star Trek may not have held on long enough to get the benefit of Fox's change of fortune. When you're having to reopen a studio, a weekly TV series requiring significant effects and production budget would be the last thing you'd wanna content with.

Now, let's say the same two-pilot process happens at Fox. SoM comes out in March of 1965, meaning the budgetary concerns might no longer be a problem. The show survives, likely not being shuffled all over the schedule, and having a steady budget season after season helps.

However, when we come to the back end of the decade, Fox gets into trouble again. Star!, Doctor Dolittle, Hello-Goodbye (a misguided vehicle for yet another of DFZ's mistresses), and Tora! Tora! Tora! all die at the box office, or have production problems that drive them over budget. By 1970, the studio is heading back toward the direction they started the previous decade in. DFZ is booted from the studio, and Richard Zanuck leaves, too. Given all of these problems, Star Trek's budget might again become a problem. Maybe the show makes a fourth season in 1969-1970, but year five seems implausible.

TL;DR - with the yo-yo effect of Fox's success during the 1960's, little would've likely changed.

 

[Ssosmcin]

So, taking into account the rough state the studio was in, I tend to think Star Trek may not have held on long enough to get the benefit of Fox's change of fortune. When you're having to reopen a studio, a weekly TV series requiring significant effects and production budget would be the last thing you'd wanna content with.

I loved your analysis, but you're not taking into account that Fox was already producing special effects heavy science fiction series. Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea was in production and while Roddenberry was shopping Star Trek around, Fox was well into development of Lost in Space (I have the check the dates to see if the LiS pilot was already shot or not). While Voyage had the standing sets from the 1961 film to save them the costs of building the Seaview (not to mention significant useage of stock footage from the film and the sub models), Lost in Space was done from scratch. The unaired pilot was packed to the gills with effects from the (then named) Gemini 12 model, the launch-flight-crash, the chariot miniature and full sized prop, the giant cyclops, the two aliens at the end and a lot of sets and water usage. After LiS was up and running, The Time Tunnel was produced. So by 1966, Irwin Allen had three effects-heavy series on the air. While there was some very obvious cost savings involved (LiS had the same planet set every episode, Voyage used stock footage from films and its own prior episodes, The Time Tunnel was practically a clip series), these were still expensive programs. Even before LIS and Voyage ended, Land of the Giants was being filmed and that had complex effects every single week. And that's just Irwin Allen. Batman was also on the air in early 1966 and it was very expensive. So, Fox seemed to have no problem producing high priced SF series as early as 1964. Maybe 1965 if they waited to see if Voyage had legs.

 

[Firebird]

I loved your analysis, but you're not taking into account that Fox was already producing special effects heavy science fiction series. Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea was in production and while Roddenberry was shopping Star Trek around, Fox was well into development of Lost in Space (I have the check the dates to see if the LiS pilot was already shot or not). While Voyage had the standing sets from the 1961 film to save them the costs of building the Seaview (not to mention significant useage of stock footage from the film and the sub models), Lost in Space was done from scratch. The unaired pilot was packed to the gills with effects from the (then named) Gemini 12 model, the launch-flight-crash, the chariot miniature and full sized prop, the giant cyclops, the two aliens at the end and a lot of sets and water usage. After LiS was up and running, The Time Tunnel was produced. So by 1966, Irwin Allen had three effects-heavy series on the air. While there was some very obvious cost savings involved (LiS had the same planet set every episode, Voyage used stock footage from films and its own prior episodes, The Time Tunnel was practically a clip series), these were still expensive programs. Even before LIS and Voyage ended, Land of the Giants was being filmed and that had complex effects every single week. And that's just Irwin Allen. Batman was also on the air in early 1966 and it was very expensive. So, Fox seemed to have no problem producing high priced SF series as early as 1964. Maybe 1965 if they waited to see if Voyage had legs.

All very good points! I’d forgotten about the sci-fi series Fox was making around this time. The question then becomes, with 3 expensive effects-driven series in production or development, could Fox have afforded to gamble on yet another series? And one from a producer that I don’t think was proven to be a hit-maker yet (The Lieutenant had bombed by this point, IIRC). Irwin Allen already had the notoriety of the original film coming out, so it was a more certain risk on the part of the studio. Even a show like Batman was based on existing IP, so there was a built-in fan base the studio could depend on for ratings.

 

[Redfern]

Another hypothetical "visual" from a Fox produced Trek...

Assuming they opted to employ Lydecker type "wire" effects shot totally "in camera", at least some of the time, I can imagine them staging a Galileo shuttlecraft planetary sequence, both landing and launching from a neutrally rocky landscape, sequences that could be tinted slightly and reused to represent different worlds.

Yes, I am aware the shuttle model was actually suspended from wires, but it was in conjunction a blue screen optical matte pass. If L.B. Abbot and Howard Lydecker were given the job, I suspect they would have wanted to film everything "in camera" in a "single pass".

I will admit staging footage similar to the famous "J2 crash sequence" with the shuttle shot from underneath as it barreled through smoke in a real environment would have looked "wicked"!

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I will admit staging footage similar to the famous "J2 crash sequence" with the shuttle shot from underneath as it barreled through smoke in a real environment would have looked "wicked"!

Yeah. The original Jupiter 2 crash was shot on location with a four-foot miniature hurtling through the (real) sky, with just the right speed and smoothness to convey the motion of a full-sized spaceship. It was so big and cinematic, so spectacular, that Star Trek's producers couldn't dream of matching it for "The Galileo Seven."

When you think about it, it's amazing that Lost in Space could get that fx shot for a TV production. I don't recall Land of the Giants doing it. Even Planet of the Apes didn't do it, and it was a gaping omission in the movie, much like missing final fx shot in The Poseidon Adventure, where we should have an aerial view of the ship's hull. The Lost in Space crash was bigger than TV got in those days.

 

[Ssosmcin]

The model work for the Land of the Giant pilot wasn't up to the standards of previous Irwin Allen series. It's almost as if they blew their FX budget on making the shots of the giants as convincing as possible, so they kinda pissed away the shots of the Spindrift, which never looked like it was anything but a miniature.

I would dare say the best shots of the Flying Sub on Voyage were as good as the J2 crash. It was all very cinematic.

 

[Noname Given]

I loved your analysis, but you're not taking into account that Fox was already producing special effects heavy science fiction series. Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea was in production and while Roddenberry was shopping Star Trek around, Fox was well into development of Lost in Space (I have the check the dates to see if the LiS pilot was already shot or not).

I believe one of the reasons CBS passed was because they said they already had a space series in the works (Lost In Space) - and remember that Lost In Space premiered in 1965 - so the original pilots for LIS and ST were probably filmed and shown to the respective suits around the same time - CBS greenlit LIS, and NBC passed, but later commissioned a second pilot.

That said, it's possible the LIS pilot was produced and shown to CBS before GR had a pilot to show for ST, because if I recall right; the character of Dr. Smith was a late addition to LIS; and they did a recut of the original LIS pilot footage was used it across 3 episodes and shot new stuff with Dr. Smith/Johnathan Harris to create the final pilot and the ultimate first LIS episode that aired.

As far as FOX and SFX, remember that while FOX was producing all the Irwin Allen stuff, it was also doing various makeup and effects tests and pre-production for the Planet of the Apes feature film (Originally Edward G. Robinson was going to play Dr. Zauis and really want to be in the project, but in the end they weren't sure he was healthy enough at his age to bear wearing the makeup prosthetics for the amount of time the role would require).

Also, if I'm not mistaken, someone at FOX created Spock's ears for Star Trek, because the guys Desilu had available weren't able to make a set that look believable on screen, and Nimoy knew someone at FOX he thought could do it.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Also, if I'm not mistaken, someone at FOX created Spock's ears for Star Trek, because the guys Desilu had available weren't able to make a set that look believable on screen, and Nimoy knew someone at FOX he thought could do it.

I hope someone can nail this down, because I thought Fred Phillips turned to a friend at MGM or Disney for the first pair of pointed ears. Was it Fox? I knew at one time, and now I don't.

I also seem to recall that Phillips struggled to get the ears right on TMP, and Nimoy sent him back to the drawing board a couple of times, and wasn't super-happy about it.

 

[Noname Given]

I hope someone can nail this down, because I thought Fred Phillips turned to a friend at MGM or Disney for the first pair of pointed ears. Was it Fox? I knew at one time, and now I don't.

I also seem to recall that Phillips struggled to get the ears right on TMP, and Nimoy sent him back to the drawing board a couple of times, and wasn't super-happy about it.

Looks like I was mistaken:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phillips_(make-up_artist)#Star_Trek

Because Spock's ears are some of the most visible and famous makeup appliances associated with Star Trek: The Original Series, many people believe that Phillips, as the designated make-up artist for the show, designed Spock's ears. However, this is not true. There was a contract in place with an outside company to make the ears, but after several failed attempts, Fred Phillips called a former colleague of his, Charlie Shram, who was then the head of makeup at the Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Studios (MGM). As a favor to Phillips, Shram took a mold of Nimoy's ears and designed and manufactured the first usable set of Spock ears prior to the production of the first (rejected/unaired) pilot episode, "The Cage." While working on Star Trek: The Original Series, Phillips would create new ears every few days in batches by baking them. Not every pair fit actor Leonard Nimoy successfully and so multiples were required.[3] They were made out of latex, and were fragile, easily being damaged while being removed or during scenes. The mould and two pairs of ears were listed by Christie's auction house in 2000, with the expectation that the mould itself would sell for up to $20,000.

In addition to his work on the Vulcans, he also designed the original Klingons, Romulans and the majority of the other aliens in the series. He went on to work on Star Trek: The Motion Picture, and was responsible for shaving Persis Khambatta's head so that she could portray Ilia in the film. He was asked to return for Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, but due to his diminishing eyesight, he turned the offer down.

Prior to the adoption of digital media, Phillips was occasionally conflated with an eponymous New York City science fiction fan who helped to popularize the Society for Creative Anachronism and the works of H.P. Lovecraft.

Of course on the StarTrek.com site, the story seems a little different from the above still:
https://www.startrek.com/article/creating-star-treks-first-alien-mr-spock

The only reference to MGM's ultimate involvement:

"The theory was that, once the molds were made, duplicate ears could be cranked out when needed and glued onto Leonard’s ears. Easier said than done. Once a pair of them had been painstakingly attached and colored to match the rest of Spock’s yellowish complexion, that was it for that pair. And when they were removed (a painful and time consuming process for Leonard, since they were attached with spirit glue and could be removed only with the use of strong solvent), they couldn’t be saved for use the next time. New day, new ears. And the rubber being used wasn’t dependable. The makeup lab had to cast pair after pair of ears until a good set was made. Later, when the series was filmed, Charles Schramm of the MGM makeup department would use an improved latex formula and crank out ears on an assembly-line basis."

So yeah, now I see why Harvey often pulls his hair out when trying to ACCURATELY figure out what actually happened, and all the various stories, etc.

 

[Firebird]

I'd always read that it was John Chambers that created the final version of Spock's ears: https://ew.com/article/2013/02/08/spocks-ears-origin-story/

 

[Maurice]

I believe one of the reasons CBS passed was because they said they already had a space series in the works (Lost In Space) - and remember that Lost In Space premiered in 1965 - so the original pilots for LIS and ST were probably filmed and shown to the respective suits around the same time - CBS greenlit LIS, and NBC passed, but later commissioned a second pilot.

Nope. LIS wasn't even pitched to CBS until months after NBC signed Desilu to do the Trek pilot, despite what GR thought. The two pilots were shot almost at the same time, with Trek being sent back to the drawing board and LIS getting a pickup.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Nope. LIS wasn't even pitched to CBS until months after NBC signed Desilu to do the Trek pilot, despite what GR thought. The two pilots were shot almost at the same time, with Trek being sent back to the drawing board and LIS getting a pickup.

Yeah. It was one of those cases where GR told the story his way, which doesn't line up with later accounts and docs that came out. He was a myth maker in more ways than one, Star Trek itself being the good way.

 

[Harvey]

I believe one of the reasons CBS passed was because they said they already had a space series in the works (Lost In Space) - and remember that Lost In Space premiered in 1965 - so the original pilots for LIS and ST were probably filmed and shown to the respective suits around the same time - CBS greenlit LIS, and NBC passed, but later commissioned a second pilot.

Roddenberry made this claim often, but it was never true. Allen pitched CBS after Roddenberry had struck out there and sold to NBC.

EDIT: @Maurice beat me to it!

 

[Ssosmcin]

Man, Roddenberry made that claim practically from day one. Wasn't that in TMOST?

 

[mb22]

Man, Roddenberry made that claim practically from day one. Wasn't that in TMOST?

It does, IIRC. So does Wikipedia, but its probably just repeating what has been written in many places since TMOST appeared. Is there a well documented comparative timeline between Trek and Lost in Space? When was the original 'Smith-less" pilot "No Place to Hide" filmed? When was the series pitched to CBS?

 

[Maurice]

It does, IIRC. So does Wikipedia, but its probably just repeating what has been written in many places since TMOST appeared. Is there a well documented comparative timeline between Trek and Lost in Space? When was the original 'Smith-less" pilot "No Place to Hide" filmed? When was the series pitched to CBS?

The Irwin Allen papers illustrate both when he made the deal with CBS (months after GR struck out at CBS), and when the "No Place to Hide" pilot was shot (Dec 1964 IIRC). @Harvey has seen this documentation.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

The Irwin Allen papers illustrate both when he made the deal with CBS (months after GR struck out at CBS), and when the "No Place to Hide" pilot was shot (Dec 1964 IIRC). @Harvey has seen this documentation.

I didn't know that. LIS and "The Cage" shot their first episodes the same month, but ST took a full year longer to go on the air.

Also of interest, it's lucky "The Cage" was shot in color despite the fact that the networks would not be all-color until Sep 1966. "No Place to Hide" was shot in b&w (except for the spectacular Jupiter 2 landing). Star Trek's one-year delay had the silver lining of the whole series being shot in color, unless ST was always going for color regardless, like Bonanza and some other westerns. And that would be a rare case of Desilu spending money that Fox was unwilling to spend.