Star Trek S1 Intro Narration Variation?

[Ssosmcin]

First, I’ve really enjoyed this discussion. It’s got me thinking about a lot of things, and while I may not agree with all of your thoughts on it, it’s opened me up to different possibilities.

Having said that, I agree that when they assembled the episodes they didn’t go to the broadcast prints, but the sound tapes they found in storage. It’s possible some of the original tapes were lost, or so degraded they couldn’t be used. Maybe the cans were mislabeled (ask any soundtrack restoration expert about how often that happens). Either way, I can totally buy “wrong tape stuck in the archives.” I just think you and I have differing beliefs on when it would have happened.

I truly feel if they had just gone back to the broadcast prints and restored those and included the mix from that source, this conversation wouldn’t be happening. Which is what I would have loved, really.

 

[DeepSpaceYorks]

First, I’ve really enjoyed this discussion. It’s got me thinking about a lot of things, and while I may not agree with all of your thoughts on it, it’s opened me up to different possibilities.

Having said that, I agree that when they assembled the episodes they didn’t go to the broadcast prints, but the sound tapes they found in storage. It’s possible some of the original tapes were lost, or so degraded they couldn’t be used. Maybe the cans were mislabeled (ask any soundtrack restoration expert about how often that happens). Either way, I can totally buy “wrong tape stuck in the archives.” I just think you and I have differing beliefs on when it would have happened.

I truly feel if they had just gone back to the broadcast prints and restored those and included the mix from that source, this conversation wouldn’t be happening. Which is what I would have loved, really.

Now, there's an interesting issue here with the soundtrack editing and film prints. Are the Star Trek original prints Optical prints or Sep Magnetic prints and are the syndication prints (the 70's cut ones) optical or Sep mag? Now, I'm no expert in this but it would be interesting to understand how they rebuilt the prints for syndication. Obviously new prints were constructed and struck as the excised scenes still survive. I presume they went back to the original negs and made cuts. This would necessitate a rebuilt soundtrack.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound-on-film

 

[Ssosmcin]

That is an interesting point. The 70's prints, though, were edited by the individual stations. Some Connecticut stations, for example, ran them uncut while here in New York, they were sliced randomly. I don't think Paramount did anything other than just send out 16mm dupes of broadcast prints. The only actual edits were to the previews, which had the "next voyage" footage cut in to replace the "next week" parts used in the first two seasons.

In the 80's, Paramount sent out the pre-cut prints and that's when the audio adjustments seemed to crop up. So, that's when they could have "rebuilt" the soundtrack.

 

[DeepSpaceYorks]

In the 80's, Paramount sent out the pre-cut prints and that's when the audio adjustments seemed to crop up. So, that's when they could have "rebuilt" the soundtrack.

If scenes with music were truncated and/or removed then music/sound effects editing would definitely have needed editing. Have you been able to run an original syndication print with an altered one to see any differences?
I'd really like to know more about this, where can I read about it? As a Doctor Who fan we often have extremely detailed info about prints, cuts and variants that you don't seem to be able to access with Star Trek.

 

[Ssosmcin]

The one episode I have is on a reel and I'd have to dig it out. I'm pretty sure it was edited, but a sliced 16mm film wouldn't need to have the music separated, it's all on one strip. It would just be a "cut and tape" job.

 

[DeepSpaceYorks]

The one episode I have is on a reel and I'd have to dig it out. I'm pretty sure it was edited, but a sliced 16mm film wouldn't need to have the music separated, it's all on one strip. It would just be a "cut and tape" job.

Is there a comprehensive list anywhere of the Paramount 80's cuts compared to the original length episodes. I first saw the episodes on BBC in the early '80's; were they the same cut prints as those in America?

 

[Ssosmcin]

Phil Ferrand made lists of each cut in the episodes he had on VHS tape off TV in the Nitpicker’s Guide to the Original Series book. He compared them with the official Paramount tapes. These were the mid-80’s prints, the pre-cut episodes. Before that, syndication stations did them themselves and every market was different. It would be impossible to get a list of them all. I wouldn't even know where to begin!

I would have assumed the UK would have run them uncut since you didn’t normally have to make room for more commercials. At least the recordings of other shows, like Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, were run uncut on Channel 4. They had two commercial breaks, but were run a little faster due to the NTSC to PAL conversion. I can’t vouch for the prints being the same. But it’s a good assumption they came from the same source once Paramount standardized them.

 

[DeepSpaceYorks]

Phil Ferrand made lists of each cut in the episodes he had on VHS tape off TV in the Nitpicker’s Guide to the Original Series book. He compared them with the official Paramount tapes. These were the mid-80’s prints, the pre-cut episodes. Before that, syndication stations did them themselves and every market was different. It would be impossible to get a list of them all. I wouldn't even know where to begin!

I would have assumed the UK would have run them uncut since you didn’t normally have to make room for more commercials. At least the recordings of other shows, like Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, were run uncut on Channel 4. They had two commercial breaks, but were run a little faster due to the NTSC to PAL conversion. I can’t vouch for the prints being the same. But it’s a good assumption they came from the same source once Paramount standardized them.

You may find this list of articles an interesting read

http://space-doubt.blogspot.com/

 

[Methuselah Flint]

I would have thought, as others have suggested, that any editing would have been done with the prints, once given to stations, rather than an entirely new soundtrack being re-cut prior to being sent out. I. E. I doubt there is a 'master syndication' copy.

 

[Ssosmcin]

The only time that happens is when Paramount sent out pre edited prints. There were a lot of fades abs cross fades and adjustments to make the transitions smoother.

 

[Methuselah Flint]

The only time that happens is when Paramount sent out pre edited prints. There were a lot of fades abs cross fades and adjustments to make the transitions smoother.

For which episodes?

 

[Ssosmcin]

For which episodes?

Well, I can't give you a list from memory, I don't have those tapes anymore, but Journey to Babel had some. One example: they used library cues to create a stinger when they added an extra commercial break when Kirk says "I want to know who on board is receiving it." They froze the frame and faded out.

 

[Methuselah Flint]

Well, I can't give you a list from memory, I don't have those tapes anymore, but Journey to Babel had some. One example: they used library cues to create a stinger when they added an extra commercial break when Kirk says "I want to know who on board is receiving it." They froze the frame and faded out.

Ah right I see. And that was Paramount or whoever that did that, not the syndication station?

 

[Ssosmcin]

Yes exactly. It was the same for the episode run on two different stations.

 

[Noname Given]

I'm sure that by the 1980ies, Paramount was sending out (or up-linking via satellite) Broadcast quality video tapes that local stations could furter edit for more commercial time to sell, etc. I know that was the case by 1987 because I had access to a C-Band satellite, and recorded a lot of stuff Paramount uplinked to my VHS at the time.

 

[Methuselah Flint]

So Phil Farrand's list is not exhaustive then?

 

[Ssosmcin]

So Phil Farrand's list is not exhaustive then?

Oh he does it for every episode. He also noted that there were a number that didn’t have cuts, he called them “the unsyndicated.” But I remember all of the episodes being 45 minutes so maybe some were done locally.

I just don’t have the list handy.

 

[Methuselah Flint]

Oh he does it for every episode. He also noted that there were a number that didn’t have cuts, he called them “the unsyndicated.” But I remember all of the episodes being 45 minutes so maybe some were done locally.

I just don’t have the list handy.

Yes this is what I mean. I have the book, but if he lists episodes that weren't cut, yet you say they are, then his book presumably isn't 100% accurate...

 

[Ssosmcin]

Yes this is what I mean. I have the book, but if he lists episodes that weren't cut, yet you say they are, then his book presumably isn't 100% accurate...

I’m just saying my local affiliates ran cut episodes. I don’t know why he wound up with uncuts. Maybe my station cut them further or just ran commercials when they felt like it. My memory is way too fuzzy to remember. His books were written with the tapes on hand. I don’t have reason to doubt him.

 

[Methuselah Flint]

My UK 3-episode VHS accidentally has the cut The Changeling, including a commercial break after Uhura's "blueey?".