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The Last Jedi - Actually Widely Hated?

Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
It's called Star Wars .. not Star sit around and meditate.
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Yoda would like a word with you.
Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
whether ast 6 or my current age I don't care about Holdo and her purple hair
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Kind of a mouthy broad, isn't she bro? She should shut up and know her place. And what's with all that crap in her hair? Definitely an SJW Vagenda driven hire for the Resistance, amirite old chum?

What did Holdo or her purple hair have to do with anything? I mean, I know why you reject new female main characters based on prior discussions where you demonstrated (but wouldn't admit to) your misogyny ad nauseam, but what was the relevance to the post you were quoting?
Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
I could swear that - despite what you're told - The Force Awakens was the kind of script that was done around a the proverbial meeting table, with people calling out lines, naming SW images they like, and just patting themselves on the back because they knew they had a monster hit on their hands.
"I had Poe dying in the script"
Actor: "I don't want to die. I died in the last three movies I was in."
"Oh that's ok. .. fine. We'll have your character show up at the end of the second act without explanation!"
This is not storytelling. This is a corporate conglomerate patting themselves on the back for its ingenuity.
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So, you just unilaterally decided that thousands of television shows and films that involved a collaborative effort aren't real storytelling and that only the lone writer struggling at their desk tapping on a dusty old typewriter counts. TV shows get written around a writer's table like that all the time, with someone submitting a script or an idea and it being revised based on the input of others, having parts removed because they're too similar to an existing story, being combined with other submitted stories, or having someone change a character death because the actor did a great job and they'd like to keep them on longer. It's doesn't make it any less storytelling, it's just a different kind. Who the hell elected you Mayor of Storytown?

You like to act like you're some kind of expert on writing and storytelling, but I'm not seeing it.
 
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fireproof78 said:
And Abrams wanted to make a Star Wars story because of the impact it had on him.

Saying it's only profit motivated ignores the artistic work of those involved.
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Look. I know more than anyone that stories are written in conference tables..

Even good ones.

But I was responding to the retort I quoted that implied that TFA is some "work of art form the bottom of JJ's heart" when the script is merely a series of callbacks, coincidences and contrivances in lieu of a real story. If he really had a STORY to tell, I would not care in the least if he got ina writers' room and they went through it beat by beat on a dry erase board
 
Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
But I was responding to the retort I quoted that implied that TFA is some "work of art form the bottom of JJ's heart" when the script is merely a series of callbacks, coincidences and contrivances in lieu of a real story. If he really had a STORY to tell, I would not care in the least if he got ina writers' room and they went through it beat by beat on a dry erase board
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I don't agree. I think it was a work of art from the bottom of Abrams' heart, from the designs, to the sets and yes the story. I think he and Arndt worked hard to tell the story they wanted to tell, within the confines of what LFL and Disney wanted. And I think none of us would care one iota if it were any other project but Star Wars.

Regardless, I think Abrams told a great story, and more so than just "ANH reskinned." Yes, it had similarities and beats, but that's OK. It's called the monomyth for a reason.
 
Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
Yes but in the original films, it was important to fight the good fight, to know what the good cause is. we watch these movies partly for that coming together, partly to see the fight, to see what a character can do what lines they will and will not cross.. and partly for the spectacle
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What good fight was that?

Where did we see anyone seriously weigh up whether they were on the right side?

Where did we see our heroes moralise or seriously question their actions?

Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
Look. I know more than anyone that stories are written in conference tables..
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More than anyone you say?
 
Odd question: Are we sure Holdo is human? Could her purple hair indicate she's one of many near-human species in the Star Wars Galaxy?
 
Wookieepedia says she's a human from Gatalenta, and for hair color it says "dyed various colors", so it sounds like she's changed it over the years. I haven't read it yet, but I believe she plays a fairly significant role in the book Leia, Princess of Alderaan.
 
These new movies are so ready to smear older characters then kill them and make the new characters look so good, but the films have actually nothing interesting to say on their own, expect if you like the notion of characters spending hours at a casino to buy their ship six minutes.. (convoluted storytelling is the future.. didn't ya know that?"


But.. but "Star Wars is better than EVAARRR!!!!"
 
Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
These new movies are so ready to smear older characters then kill them
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Blame Harrison Ford for the first one. He wouldn't come back unless they killed him off.

and make the new characters look so good, but the films have actually nothing interesting to say on their own,"
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Nope. One of the things I loved about The Last Jedi... ANYONE could be a hero, you didn't have to inherit your midicholrian count from your Daddy to be a hero.
 
The casino trip was basically the newbies coming up with a plan that could work, but doesn't when it happens because they are new at this and they settle for second best because they mess up more than once due to their newness to this hero stuff and general agent business (Finn's a ex-stormtrooper and Rose is a tech) Poe might have been able to pull off the mission if he went, but he'd be missed. And even screwing up the mission, it nearly worked.
 
Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
These new movies are so ready to smear older characters then kill them and make the new characters look so good, but the films have actually nothing interesting to say on their own, expect if you like the notion of characters spending hours at a casino to buy their ship six minutes.. (convoluted storytelling is the future.. didn't ya know that?"
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No.
Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
But.. but "Star Wars is better than EVAARRR!!!!"
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I thoroughly enjoy the ST but no, this hyperbolic statement is completely wrong.
 
JD said:
Wookieepedia says she's a human from Gatalenta, and for hair color it says "dyed various colors", so it sounds like she's changed it over the years. I haven't read it yet, but I believe she plays a fairly significant role in the book Leia, Princess of Alderaan.
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She does. She's basically the Star Wars version of Luna Lovegood, and she's awesome.
 
Campe98 said:
I don’t think anyone here is claiming that Star Wars is the best it’s been. Most of us have suggested that while we’ve enjoyed these movies, they ain’t perfect. So quit your bullshit on that.
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For the record, I would say that (mostly). But it's not because I think the new movies are perfect, I just think they're on average better than the old ones. The Last Jedi is without doubt my favorite in the franchise and the only film I would even entertain arguments for competing with it is Empire, which is honestly probably somewhat better made plotwise, but I just don't like it as much because Rey is just a more fun, more interesting character than OT Luke ever was (and Old Luke is actually a much more fun and interesting character than OT Luke ever was, too).

Really imo, most of the films are varying shades of average (TFA, R1, Solo, RotJ) or terrible (ANH, the prequels). But the modern characters (Rey, Finn, Kylo, Old Luke and Jyn primarily) are more interesting to me than the older ones so the new movies win overall.
 
Grendelsbayne said:
For the record, I would say that (mostly). But it's not because I think the new movies are perfect, I just think they're on average better than the old ones. The Last Jedi is without doubt my favorite in the franchise and the only film I would even entertain arguments for competing with it is Empire, which is honestly probably somewhat better made plotwise, but I just don't like it as much because Rey is just a more fun, more interesting character than OT Luke ever was (and Old Luke is actually a much more fun and interesting character than OT Luke ever was, too).

Really imo, most of the films are varying shades of average (TFA, R1, Solo, RotJ) or terrible (ANH, the prequels). But the modern characters (Rey, Finn, Kylo, Old Luke and Jyn primarily) are more interesting to me than the older ones so the new movies win overall.
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I lost you at ANH being 'terrible'.
 
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