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Terminator VI

I'm conflicted over the fate of John Connor in the film. On the one hand, I like the idea that the leader of the Human Resistance can be anyone and it doesn't have to involve destiny or some fated savior. I also like that it's a young immigrant woman this time around, which is a timely message. On the other hand, given how Cameron was vocally upset with the flippant manner in which Hicks (to a lesser extent) and especially Newt were killed off in Alien³ after all the character development and bonding Ripley had with them and effort she went through to save Newt (plus, the obvious set-up of Newt as a second chance to make up for Ripley missing her real daughter's life while in hypersleep according the Special Edition), it seems kind of strange that he so casually killed off John here.

I can see why they did it from the standpoint of giving Sarah a new mission and motivation; driven by her hatred and regret to hunt down terminators, but I think it could have also been interesting to have John survive and have to deal with the reality that because of changes in the timeline someone else becomes the savior of humanity instead, and see how he adapts to that. Does he become bitter and jaded or is he relieved to have the pressure of leadership off him but decides to help out anyway as an advisor/mentor to Dani much like his mother was to him? I thought that was a missed opportunity and would have removed the sting of killing off the primary motivating factor of the film series so far. They were originally going to kill off Connor in Salvation and have Marcus take over for him while wearing his face, which was a horrifically bad idea that was fortunately abandoned, and while this is nowhere near that level and isn't even a bad choice per se, I am kind of surprised Cameron went for it.

I like how they're still managing to come up with a progression of terminator advancements in each film. In T3 we already got an armored endoskeleton with a liquid metal shapeshifting skin, but this ups the ante by making the shapeshifitng skin nanites (presumably without the vulnerabilities to freezing) and giving them the ability to detach completely from the endoskeleton and operate autonomously as a second terminator while the first does its own thing too and they tag off like Donkey and Diddy Kong. Gabriel Luna also did a nice job finding a bit of a middle ground between his Ghostrider character's personality and the robotic movements and behavior of the T-1000.

By the same token the excellent Mackenzie Davis from Halt and Catch Fire plays an improved version of the actual human given cybernetic enhancements (called "Augments") in the vein of Marcus from Salvation, though aware of the change throughout and with computer targeting and other enhancements to her brain and senses . She is enhanced by the Resistance to be able to compete against Legion's (this timeline's Skynet) terminators, though she does have the disadvantage of overheating.

The CGI in the film is strangely hit and miss. When they were de-aging Arnold, Hamilton, and Furlong and plastering their de-aged CGI faces on younger actor's bodies, they did an amazing job. It's come a long way since even the de-aged Arnold in Salvation or GeniSys, and that wasn't that bad (not like Scary Fisher in Rogue One, which was awful) , even though they made sure to burn its face off as quickly as possible to save money and credibility in Salvation. But then at times during the big action setpieces it seems as if they must ave blown their wad on the de-aging CGI and nanites and couldn't afford a decent rendering of crashing planes of underwater HUMVEE's. which either looked like an early 2000s video game cut scene or were permanently shrouded in a mist like an Elizabeth Taylor White Diamonds commercial from the 80s (aging myself). "Not so fast (and blurry, and amorphous), Von Ryan!" The falling out of the cargo plane on a parachuting vehicle sequence looked just as fake and with equally bad body physics as the falling out the cargo plane on a parachuting sequence in the shitty A-Team movie, which is not a good thing.

The final fight in yet another factory seemed kind of anticlimactic after the build-up, but I guess a melee fight with biker chains is something new.

Linda Hamilton did a great job reprising her role as Sarah Connor and bringing a snarky bitterness and sense of not giving a fuck anymore because she lost the only meaning in her life so now she's just fueled by hate for terminators.

Arnold gives an interesting new take on the terminator that surpasses even the level of emotional development it had in T2. Here, after killing John Connor, he fully settles down with a wife (they have a "non-physical relationship") and adopted son, coming to realize through that relationship what he took away from Sarah by killing John and therefore deciding to help her via text messages alerting her to incoming terminators from the future. It really shows that Skynet/Legion is more of an oppressor/enslaver or these cyborgs than Humans were of Skynet (from its point of view). I wish we could have seen more of the Sarah Connor Chronicles and the different factions of robots which they seemed to be going for with Shirley Manson's T-1000 character.
It's not nearly as good as Terminator 2: Judgment Day or The Terminator, which are two of my favorite films, but Terminator: Dark Fate is better than the rest by a fair margin and a worthy entry in the Terminator lore.
 
I'm conflicted over the fate of John Connor in the film. On the one hand, I like the idea that the leader of the Human Resistance can be anyone and it doesn't have to involve destiny or some fated savior. I also like that it's a young immigrant woman this time around, which is a timely message. On the other hand, given how Cameron was vocally upset with the flippant manner in which Hicks (to a lesser extent) and especially Newt were killed off in Alien³ after all the character development and bonding Ripley had with them and effort she went through to save Newt (plus, the obvious set-up of Newt as a second chance to make up for Ripley missing her real daughter's life while in hypersleep according the Special Edition), it seems kind of strange that he so casually killed off John here.

I can see why they did it from the standpoint of giving Sarah a new mission and motivation; driven by her hatred and regret to hunt down terminators, but I think it could have also been interesting to have John survive and have to deal with the reality that because of changes in the timeline someone else becomes the savior of humanity instead, and see how he adapts to that. Does he become bitter and jaded or is he relieved to have the pressure of leadership off him but decides to help out anyway as an advisor/mentor to Dani much like his mother was to him? I thought that was a missed opportunity and would have removed the sting of killing off the primary motivating factor of the film series so far. They were originally going to kill off Connor in Salvation and have Marcus take over for him while wearing his face, which was a horrifically bad idea that was fortunately abandoned, and while this is nowhere near that level and isn't even a bad choice per se, I am kind of surprised Cameron went for it.

I like how they're still managing to come up with a progression of terminator advancements in each film. In T3 we already got an armored endoskeleton with a liquid metal shapeshifting skin, but this ups the ante by making the shapeshifitng skin nanites (presumably without the vulnerabilities to freezing) and giving them the ability to detach completely from the endoskeleton and operate autonomously as a second terminator while the first does its own thing too and they tag off like Donkey and Diddy Kong. Gabriel Luna also did a nice job finding a bit of a middle ground between his Ghostrider character's personality and the robotic movements and behavior of the T-1000.

By the same token the excellent Mackenzie Davis from Halt and Catch Fire plays an improved version of the actual human given cybernetic enhancements (called "Augments") in the vein of Marcus from Salvation, though aware of the change throughout and with computer targeting and other enhancements to her brain and senses . She is enhanced by the Resistance to be able to compete against Legion's (this timeline's Skynet) terminators, though she does have the disadvantage of overheating.

The CGI in the film is strangely hit and miss. When they were de-aging Arnold, Hamilton, and Furlong and plastering their de-aged CGI faces on younger actor's bodies, they did an amazing job. It's come a long way since even the de-aged Arnold in Salvation or GeniSys, and that wasn't that bad (not like Scary Fisher in Rogue One, which was awful) , even though they made sure to burn its face off as quickly as possible to save money and credibility in Salvation. But then at times during the big action setpieces it seems as if they must ave blown their wad on the de-aging CGI and nanites and couldn't afford a decent rendering of crashing planes of underwater HUMVEE's. which either looked like an early 2000s video game cut scene or were permanently shrouded in a mist like an Elizabeth Taylor White Diamonds commercial from the 80s (aging myself). "Not so fast (and blurry, and amorphous), Von Ryan!" The falling out of the cargo plane on a parachuting vehicle sequence looked just as fake and with equally bad body physics as the falling out the cargo plane on a parachuting sequence in the shitty A-Team movie, which is not a good thing.

The final fight in yet another factory seemed kind of anticlimactic after the build-up, but I guess a melee fight with biker chains is something new.

Linda Hamilton did a great job reprising her role as Sarah Connor and bringing a snarky bitterness and sense of not giving a fuck anymore because she lost the only meaning in her life so now she's just fueled by hate for terminators.

Arnold gives an interesting new take on the terminator that surpasses even the level of emotional development it had in T2. Here, after killing John Connor, he fully settles down with a wife (they have a "non-physical relationship") and adopted son, coming to realize through that relationship what he took away from Sarah by killing John and therefore deciding to help her via text messages alerting her to incoming terminators from the future. It really shows that Skynet/Legion is more of an oppressor/enslaver or these cyborgs than Humans were of Skynet (from its point of view). I wish we could have seen more of the Sarah Connor Chronicles and the different factions of robots which they seemed to be going for with Shirley Manson's T-1000 character.
It's not nearly as good as Terminator 2: Judgment Day or The Terminator, which are two of my favorite films, but Terminator: Dark Fate is better than the rest by a fair margin and a worthy entry in the Terminator lore.

Excellent review.
Your post got me thinking that it might have been interesting to keep John alive but show him as burned out and washed up, having become an alcoholic after not realising his original destiny as mankind’s saviour. It would’ve been a bit on the nose, given Edward Furlong’s history (and Nick Stahl’s, IIRC) but they could’ve given him some sort of redemption and reason to live in the movie.

I assume that they killed him off not just for shock value (though partly that; it was a stunning opening scene) and because they didn’t want to cast yet another John Connor (assuming that neither Furlong or Stahl were insurance-worthy for a film of this size) but because his death provided character arcs for both Sarah and Carl/Terminator. Even Carl’s last words were for John.

I hated what they did to JC in Genysis and I was also glad that they didn’t use the original plan of having him killed and replaced in Salvation. However, I did think that having John and Sarah stop Judgement Day, yet be unable to prevent his demise (killed by a terminator from a future that no longer exists, as I think the dialogue went) was a poignant, ironic twist.
 
I'm conflicted over the fate of John Connor in the film. On the one hand, I like the idea that the leader of the Human Resistance can be anyone and it doesn't have to involve destiny or some fated savior. I also like that it's a young immigrant woman this time around, which is a timely message. On the other hand, given how Cameron was vocally upset with the flippant manner in which Hicks (to a lesser extent) and especially Newt were killed off in Alien³ after all the character development and bonding Ripley had with them and effort she went through to save Newt (plus, the obvious set-up of Newt as a second chance to make up for Ripley missing her real daughter's life while in hypersleep according the Special Edition), it seems kind of strange that he so casually killed off John here.

I can see why they did it from the standpoint of giving Sarah a new mission and motivation; driven by her hatred and regret to hunt down terminators, but I think it could have also been interesting to have John survive and have to deal with the reality that because of changes in the timeline someone else becomes the savior of humanity instead, and see how he adapts to that. Does he become bitter and jaded or is he relieved to have the pressure of leadership off him but decides to help out anyway as an advisor/mentor to Dani much like his mother was to him? I thought that was a missed opportunity and would have removed the sting of killing off the primary motivating factor of the film series so far. They were originally going to kill off Connor in Salvation and have Marcus take over for him while wearing his face, which was a horrifically bad idea that was fortunately abandoned, and while this is nowhere near that level and isn't even a bad choice per se, I am kind of surprised Cameron went for it.

I like how they're still managing to come up with a progression of terminator advancements in each film. In T3 we already got an armored endoskeleton with a liquid metal shapeshifting skin, but this ups the ante by making the shapeshifitng skin nanites (presumably without the vulnerabilities to freezing) and giving them the ability to detach completely from the endoskeleton and operate autonomously as a second terminator while the first does its own thing too and they tag off like Donkey and Diddy Kong. Gabriel Luna also did a nice job finding a bit of a middle ground between his Ghostrider character's personality and the robotic movements and behavior of the T-1000.

By the same token the excellent Mackenzie Davis from Halt and Catch Fire plays an improved version of the actual human given cybernetic enhancements (called "Augments") in the vein of Marcus from Salvation, though aware of the change throughout and with computer targeting and other enhancements to her brain and senses . She is enhanced by the Resistance to be able to compete against Legion's (this timeline's Skynet) terminators, though she does have the disadvantage of overheating.

The CGI in the film is strangely hit and miss. When they were de-aging Arnold, Hamilton, and Furlong and plastering their de-aged CGI faces on younger actor's bodies, they did an amazing job. It's come a long way since even the de-aged Arnold in Salvation or GeniSys, and that wasn't that bad (not like Scary Fisher in Rogue One, which was awful) , even though they made sure to burn its face off as quickly as possible to save money and credibility in Salvation. But then at times during the big action setpieces it seems as if they must ave blown their wad on the de-aging CGI and nanites and couldn't afford a decent rendering of crashing planes of underwater HUMVEE's. which either looked like an early 2000s video game cut scene or were permanently shrouded in a mist like an Elizabeth Taylor White Diamonds commercial from the 80s (aging myself). "Not so fast (and blurry, and amorphous), Von Ryan!" The falling out of the cargo plane on a parachuting vehicle sequence looked just as fake and with equally bad body physics as the falling out the cargo plane on a parachuting sequence in the shitty A-Team movie, which is not a good thing.

The final fight in yet another factory seemed kind of anticlimactic after the build-up, but I guess a melee fight with biker chains is something new.

Linda Hamilton did a great job reprising her role as Sarah Connor and bringing a snarky bitterness and sense of not giving a fuck anymore because she lost the only meaning in her life so now she's just fueled by hate for terminators.

Arnold gives an interesting new take on the terminator that surpasses even the level of emotional development it had in T2. Here, after killing John Connor, he fully settles down with a wife (they have a "non-physical relationship") and adopted son, coming to realize through that relationship what he took away from Sarah by killing John and therefore deciding to help her via text messages alerting her to incoming terminators from the future. It really shows that Skynet/Legion is more of an oppressor/enslaver or these cyborgs than Humans were of Skynet (from its point of view). I wish we could have seen more of the Sarah Connor Chronicles and the different factions of robots which they seemed to be going for with Shirley Manson's T-1000 character.
It's not nearly as good as Terminator 2: Judgment Day or The Terminator, which are two of my favorite films, but Terminator: Dark Fate is better than the rest by a fair margin and a worthy entry in the Terminator lore.

It was never going to be. It can't.
 
So looks like it's flopped in America, just like it flopped outside of America when it was released last week. Hardly surprising really. By this point you'd have to be over 40 for the Terminator to mean anything to you, which isn't exactly the prime movie going audience.
 
It was never going to be. It can't.
Nor was I expecting it to be or disappointed that it didn't measure up to them. That wasn't a criticism so much as just laying out its placement in quality among the other films in the franchise. I posted the same review in TNZ as I did here, but they didn't see the little diagram ranking all the films that I posted here earlier, which is why I summarized the rankings again.
 
Tim Miller explains that "opening" scene


https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a...m-miller-explains-decision-john-connor-death/


Digital Spy wrote:
In a recent interview with The Hollywood Reporter, Tim offered his reasoning for killing off John so early on in the film.

"You'd think [killing John off] was probably a controversial decision, but it really wasn't," he told the publication.

"There was a lot of talk at the really early stages of should this new saviour be someone who was connected to the Connors… which I was always against, because I'm just not a fan of the Chosen One sort of movie as much as I am of a hero sort of rising to meet adversity..."

"So I was all for this being some new person that wasn't connected to the Connors and had been chosen by the hand of fate."

Tim went on to say that "Sarah Connor is not a happy character" and that "she is best when she is driven and tragic".

"And really, when you think about it, [John] could be sort of a pathetic figure as a man who had missed his moment in history and was relegated to this banal, ordinary existence, when in fact had Sarah not chosen to destroy Cyberdyne, he would be the leader of humanity. Nobody wants to see that," he added.

"Secondly, [John's death], that's rocket fuel for Sarah. And lastly, you need to clear the stage for these new characters... Everybody was in pretty strong agreement, and the way to start it, was really, you want to have this dramatic impact."

The director concluded: "I feel like that accomplished that. I hate the violence of it. I hate the idea of a kid being shot, but the dramatic fuel that it gives the story is kind of undeniable."
 
So looks like it's flopped in America, just like it flopped outside of America when it was released last week. Hardly surprising really. By this point you'd have to be over 40 for the Terminator to mean anything to you, which isn't exactly the prime movie going audience.
Hey, I'm 34! So is my brother! ;)
 
So looks like it's flopped in America, just like it flopped outside of America when it was released last week. Hardly surprising really. By this point you'd have to be over 40 for the Terminator to mean anything to you, which isn't exactly the prime movie going audience.

It’s not the age group it’s the quality of the writing and the story. They milked the franchise dry and they thought they could diversify it up and change the original premise. No one is buying it this time. They wrecked Star Wars because they worried more about casting instead of story. Killing off original heroes in a crappy way tends to tick fans of the series off.
 
It’s not the age group it’s the quality of the writing and the story. They milked the franchise dry and they thought they could diversify it up and change the original premise. No one is buying it this time. They wrecked Star Wars because they worried more about casting instead of story. Killing off original heroes in a crappy way tends to tick fans of the series off.

Mexican Terminators coming North?

Maybe Trump was right about needing a wall?
 
Mexican Terminators coming North?

Maybe Trump was right about needing a wall?

Yeah. They are trying to send us messages politically, diversity etc. I want to go to a movie to enjoy myself not to be hit over the head with an agenda. TLJ did that with the whole rich people treat animals terribly bull crap. It was so dumb and obvious. The other Star Wars movies stayed away from that crap.
 
Sarah Connor was the real hero of the original 2 films. John Connor was more of a mythic figure not a real character. Maybe if they had stuck with an actor to reprise the role he could be a real person. It certainly was not ever going to be Eddie Furlong.

it would, could be still an interesting angle to see Sara give the name “John Connor” to a solider under her lead to fill that role in history [/SPOILER
 
Yeah. They are trying to send us messages politically, diversity etc. I want to go to a movie to enjoy myself not to be hit over the head with an agenda. TLJ did that with the whole rich people treat animals terribly bull crap. It was so dumb and obvious. The other Star Wars movies stayed away from that crap.

More than half the movie was set in Mexico.

Down there its gringos like Sarah who are the diversity.
 
Yeah. They are trying to send us messages politically, diversity etc. I want to go to a movie to enjoy myself not to be hit over the head with an agenda. TLJ did that with the whole rich people treat animals terribly bull crap. It was so dumb and obvious. The other Star Wars movies stayed away from that crap.


Dialogue from T2 includes:

Sarah Connor: Yeah, right. How are you supposed to know? Fucking men like you built the hydrogen bomb. Men like you thought it up. You think you're so creative. You don't know what it's like to really create something; to create a life; to feel it growing inside you. All you know how to create is death and destruction...”

Sarah Connor: [voiceover] Watching John with the machine, it was suddenly so clear. The terminator, would never stop. It would never leave him, and it would never hurt him, never shout at him, or get drunk and hit him, or say it was too busy to spend time with him. It would always be there. And it would die, to protect him. Of all the would-be fathers who came and went over the years, this thing, this machine, was the only one who measured up. In an insane world, it was the sanest choice.”

No message there, obviously
 
More than half the movie was set in Mexico.

Down there its gringos like Sarah who are the diversity.

They are trying to hard to be diverse and it is glaringly obvious. It’s pandering and it’s not working. This terminator film is tracking worse then genysis(which really stunk) and it’s on more screens.
 
So the Border detention cells should have been full of white people?

The second half of Genesis was shit.

its just ridiculous guy. Hollywood is pandering and it smacks of racism. There are already loads of diverse characters out there that are established. It’s doing a disservice to everyone by killing off hero’s in established series’s to bring on new so called diverse ones. So dumb.
 
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