VGER 23 asked me to expound on my dislike for Star Trek VI because he also expressed a dislike for it. I thought it best to spin this into its own thread because it seemed off-topic to the thread where the discussion began.
First, these opinions are of course my own. Your mileage may vary.
ST:TUC bothers me on any number of levels. I'm all for the idea that we need to get past our prejudices in order to make progress but I dislike the way the point was made. Roddenberry was idealistic enough that he gave our heroes the ability to see past their personal prejudices and keep our eyes on a brighter future. By ST VI, our idealistic crew have become a bunch of grumpy old geezers who seem reluctant at best to be assigned this mission to escort the Klingons to a place that is willing to provide them assistance.
They're still 23rd century humans. But with Spock vouching for Kirk
before actually talking with him, intended as a funny line or not, seems out of character. I'd be reluctant and grumpy too.
I can understand Kirk's reluctance to be given this mission given what happened to his son. I truly admire Kirk and McCoy's willingness to assist the Klingons after an unprovoked attack seemingly from the Enterprise. I'm more upset that the secondary characters all seem incredibly irritable rather than eager help the Klingons and build a brighter future.
They're just along for the ride?
Some things I dislike are dictated by the story. Why does the Bridge suddenly have large digital clocks everywhere? Obviously the story requires it but its too on the nose in my opinion.
Back in the day, I thought it was cool. Nowadays, not noting where they didn't reset the clocks between camera takes or got scenes out of order (oops!), it just seems superfluous. Just ask Uhura what the time is.
Excelsior didn't have clocks either...
On the plus side, had this been STV:TFF, the clocks would have included little birds popping out every hour and chirping.
I kind of lost some respect for Spock because of some of his actions in this film. Spock's forcibly extracting information from Valeris' mind is as much a violation of Spock's principles as anything I've seen and cheapens the character. Perhaps the reborn Spock doesn't have the same disdain for cruelty that the old Spock seemed to have (remember Nimoy invented the nerve pinch because he thought that Spock hitting someone was out of character). In my opinion, it's the single most vile scene in all of Star Trek.
It's said to be tantamount to rape or torture. But Spock is in a unique position, in extraordinary circumstances, tends to be truthful, Valeris was already revealed as a traitor, Spock has telepathic abilities via the mind meld, Valeris was content to let a very bad thing happen, and time was clearly an urgent situation.
Continuing on the Spock vibe, he seems like a very different character in this film. He and Valeris seem to have a "relationship" of sorts. It might not be intimate but it smacks of a sort of mid-life crisis. Valeris hangs out out in Spock's room, admiring his art collection while Spock is mixing drinks and serving them to her in a silver chalice. When did Spock acquire a taste for the finer things in life like silverware? I know this scene is intended to make Valeris' turn as the villain all the more powerful. Sadly all I see is an old guy hitting on the new girl in the office.
With all the reports in the news about Bill Cosby lately, that's what you're seeing. If you saw the movie years ago, or indeed in 1991, did you have the identical reaction? It also foreshadows why Tuvok has rituals and things that seem un-Vulcan, yet are very Vulcan. It's all about Vulcan ritual. But that only goes so far. Artwork is an anomaly, but then Spock played music in the 1960s TV show and music is an audible form of art. But if either of us never cared about art but one day bought the Mona Lisa, the one where the appraisal machine reveals the words "THIS IS A FAKE" written in felt-tip under the paint, people would probably wonder what the heck happened as well to want a hang a giant picture of a wryly smirking person without eyebrows on their wall. In other words, circular logic makes me dizzy. I don't know.
Then there are the little things that irk me. Spock stating that "only Nixon could go to China" is an old Vulcan-proverb. Or General Chang quoting Shakespeare which is of course better when you have read it in the original Klingon. Huh?!
Those didn't work for me either.
I'd surmise that Vulcan teenagers have what is known, colloquially, as "drinking game", and the Nixon line came about by one of the drunken kiddies.
Would Klingons have really visited Earth to teach Willy how to write "A Midsummer's Night's Dream"? Or worse, visiting to teach Woody how to make "A Midsummer Night's Sex Comedy"? **shudders**
Maybe the makers decided Chekov already had plenty of screen time so they rewrote that bit?
My guess is, it's all homage and tribute to TOS as "Chekovisms", made global by letting every other species look as stupid and pompous as well.
The Director's Cut adds scenes that remarkably cheapen the story and should have been left out. We got an Oliver North-type character named "Colonel West" (that's not too on the nose, is it?) who's all military and eager to risk lives to save Kirk and McCoy (and he's got the paper maps and pointer to prove his plan will work). Perhaps worse of all, we've got the Scooby-Doo moment when the mask is pulled off the Klingon assassin's face to reveal it was Colonel West all along. The original cut of the film is better without these silly scenes.
Entirely agreed.
But could it be a homage to Adam West, given how campy "the original Klilngon" and all the other Chekovisms were? Ollie was on trial for something, but it wasn't anything like what West did. Was Colonel West's first and middle names Clayton Endicott?
Thankfully, the revealing scene wasn't done in Scooby Doo
style. That would be worse, zoiks!
Please don't get me wrong...the basic idea of the film is fantastic but it is delivered with all the subtlety of a sledge hammer.
Right out of half of TOS Season 3's playbook.
As I've mentioned in the previous thread I happen to like a lot of the films that rank very low on others lists such as Star Trek V and Nemesis (though both have lots of faults as well) so it's probably natural that I dislike Star Trek VI as much as I do. I rewatched it recently and found much to admire about it that I missed 20+ years ago but the facts remain that it's my least favorite Trek film of them all.
[/quote]
VI is well-directed and acted. A big step up after the comedy routines of V and IV, for which neither has dated too well. IV may have been made better but to be frank, V over time just feels like a better, deeper story or a story with better potential with some (spiritual) depth, the comedy thrown in to capitalize on IV's comparatively successful (over)use of it.
I kind of liked that Chang was a fan of Shakespeare. It doesn't seem that odd that you'd find someone from a different race that was a big fan of something popular in another. And the "original Klingon" comment I'm sure is meant as Chang trying to put his Klingon heritage above humans, which is not unlike someone today who prefers their version of something better than another, when it isn't the original (it's also probably meant to be a joke).
Yeah, as camptacular as it all was, I'm ambivalent - which is as much an odd thing as it is a good one because part of me rather enjoyed it. I think it's due to how Christopher Plummer does his deliveries, aided by Nicholas Meyer's panache. But campy or not, was the scene intended to be a wind-up against the humans? It's a lead-in to the Klingons' dilemma, which is rather clever and even great on a dramatic (or melodramatic?) level. Chang, et al, clearly studied Shakespeare at one time - arguably as preparation for dealing with Kirk as Shakespeare is his favorite author (and, I just remembered, is said in the movie.) So that
would make narrative (as well as
theatrical) sense, and the only bad Chekovisms then go to Spock with his goofy Nixon reference (which works on a certain level, even if it's almost as out of place as Troi mind-raping the Viceroy in 'Nemesis' despite having zero ability to
project anything, even saying so in multiple episodes.)
