Spoilers Season 3 Comic-Con reveals

[SJGardner]

Saru: By the Ba'ul, did you see what happened to Captain Pike after we left??
Burnham: And Spock! He died all alone in an alternate universe after he was sent alone to start a black hole in his old age!
Tilly: Now that we know these things, we'll go back right now and stop them from ever happening! There are time machines all over here, let's take one!

Lucsly and Dulmur from Department of Temporal Investigations: Stop right there you nefarious time meddlers! You're all under arrest.

And then Daniels appears and tries to convince everyone that Discovery should go back to the 23rd century to avert whatever has caused the fall of the Federation (and because he has accidentally lost Archer in that era and doesn't have the equipment to pull him through the rest of history because of a big ball of wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey stuff that he naturally fails to explain). And then Braxton appears to blow the ship up for the destruction of the Sol system because they were his first suspects before he would settle on Voyager.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I can't wait to see the hyper-advanced, time-travelling society we know exists around this period.

I mean, they wouldn't just ignore that, would they?

Maybe they've already taken care of it. We just don't know it yet.

Spoiler: novelverse

Remember the new animated series, which was never actually made? It took place somewhere around the 25th century, where large scale detonations of Omega particles basically tore the Federation in half and made warp drive impossible in a wide area.

In one of @Christopher's "Department of Temporal Investigations" novels, we learn that Future Guy from ENT was responsible. Daniels confronts him and says something about "If we hadn't been able to isolate that timeline..."

We don't know exactly what this means, but it implies that Daniels' people are able to deal with situations like this. Maybe it's the same story here.

I mean, it'd pretty much have to be, when you think about it. Time travel has been absolutely mastered in Daniels' time. I can only assume that such knowledge, logically, can never be wiped out, and any society like Daniels' Federation which has mastered it, literally can never fall. So something else must be at work here.

 

[StarMan]

Well the whole reason the Time Cops and Daniels were made to operate from the 29th and 31st Centuries was they were far enough ahead time-wise from where our heroes conducted their weekly adventures. They've placed Discovery in the 32nd century which - given the writers' awareness of canon - can't be a coincidence.

I just wonder how/if it will be addressed on screen. The impression I got from that trailer is this is a dark ages-type era. If there's exposition detailing the lead up to this era, it would be nice to know how we went from being able to zip around space-time without vessels with nearly the same ease as the Q, to whatever this is. Or perhaps it's simply unknown to the "lower planes" - akin to the Time War in Doctor Who.

I mean, it'd pretty much have to be, when you think about it. Time travel has been absolutely mastered in Daniels' time. I can only assume that such knowledge, logically, can never be wiped out, and any society like Daniels' Federation which has mastered it, literally can never fall. So something else must be at work here.

And that's the other thing. Daniels and his society might be just fine. Their society might transcend the regular ol' space time continuum in some way. Perhaps due to wibbly wobbly timey wimey, their reality was only affected by - to use a DW analogy - fixed points in the time continuum. Say, Archer's role in the founding of The Federation had to play out as it always did for their version of reality to persist. Perhaps from their god's eye perspective, events such as in ST: First Contact, Discovery jumping ahead 930 years, the Kelvinverse offshoot, are all in flux and not fixed points as other, erm, plot-required events are, hence why we don't see Daniels or the Time Cops correcting every single time travelling event that occurs before their era.

Making stuff up is fun.

 

[Tuskin38]

So, rewatching the trailer. There is a shot of Michael wearing the same outfit as that group with the Cardassian and Laurian that appeared to be shooting her and Book.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

I have a feeling that the Future Federations time travelling abilities will play some part in why it collapsed. I'm thinking like how Annorax continually manipulated time and ended up creating different versions of the krenim imperium. Perhaps the time meddling created multiple versions of the Federation and they are all co-existing in one timeframe, with the V'draysh being a hostile version from some alternate timeframe that has taken over. It would definitely bring a new meaning to the Federation destroying itself.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I blame Daniels.

 

[Lord Garth]

Well the whole reason the Time Cops and Daniels were made to operate from the 29th and 31st Centuries was they were far enough ahead time-wise from where our heroes conducted their weekly adventures. They've placed Discovery in the 32nd century which - given the writers' awareness of canon - can't be a coincidence.

I'm hoping the end of the Time War -- however it ended -- undid everything that was ever seen about the 31st Century. Then again, that might be my not liking ENT speaking. Reigning in that bias, I think if the Federation fell, it would take the Timecops with them... so Jean-Claude Van Damme would be out of a job.

But in all seriousness, I agree. I think the reason they set DSC in the 32nd Century is so none of us could say "That isn't how the 32nd Century was portrayed before!"

 

[SG-17]

I'm hoping the end of the Time War -- however it ended -- undid everything that was ever seen about the 31st Century. Then again, that might be my not liking ENT speaking. Reigning in that bias, I think if the Federation fell, it would take the Timecops with them... so Jean-Claude Van Damme would be out of a job.

But in all seriousness, I agree. I think the reason they set DSC in the 32nd Century is so none of us could say "That isn't how the 32nd Century was portrayed before!"

Well a mere 61 years before Discovery shows up in the 32nd century we know that a Retrofitted Dorsal Carrier was commissioned.

I kinda hope we see one, I think its a really cool design.


Also I would like to see Robert Picardo come back as the Backup Module Doctor. He would in theory be arriving in what was Federation space in the late 31st century.

 

[arch101]

Time travel has been absolutely mastered in Daniels' time. I can only assume that such knowledge, logically, can never be wiped out, and any society like Daniels' Federation which has mastered it, literally can never fall. So something else must be at work here.

The ancient Romans mastered concrete as a building material and used it extensively for centuries. After the fall of the Western empire in 476, concrete construction virtually disappeared until it was rediscovered the 1800s. Common knowledge CAN disappear in the absence of a sophisticated society to teach and employ it.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The ancient Romans mastered concrete as a building material and used it extensively for centuries. After the fall of the Western empire in 476, concrete construction virtually disappeared until it was rediscovered the 1800s. Common knowledge CAN disappear in the absence of a sophisticated society to teach and employ it.

It's not at all the same thing. Time travel is, by definition, a special case.

The Federation of Daniels' era, by virtue of its absolute mastery of time travel, must be able to detect any future threats and neutralize them in advance.

Which leads me to suspect that the future as seen in DSC season 3 is either 1) an alternate future that is destined to be undone, or 2) already HAS been undone and exists as a sort of "pocket universe" (like the one in DC Comics of old).

 

[Agony_Boothb]

It's not at all the same thing. Time travel is, by definition, a special case.

The Federation of Daniels' era, by virtue of its absolute mastery of time travel, must be able to detect any future threats and neutralize them in advance.

Personally I'd be fine with Discovery ignoring the future starfleet/federation as depicted in Voyager and Enterprise. Those futures that we see are fun to glimpse at, but ultimately from a storytelling perspective they're pretty boring. There's no drama if the Federation has no limitations and can never be threatened by anything, ever because they can control time.

 

[eschaton]

Personally I'd be fine with Discovery ignoring the future starfleet/federation as depicted in Voyager and Enterprise. Those futures that we see are fun to glimpse at, but ultimately from a storytelling perspective they're pretty boring. There's no drama if the Federation has no limitations and can never be threatened by anything, ever because they can control time.

It also just doesn't make any sense. I mean, if the 31st Century Federation has time travel, and it doesn't fall ever, shouldn't the real "boss" be the Federation a million years in the future or something?

 

[Gonzo]

The problem with introducing time travel into any show is that eventually everyone ends up being able to do it which results in a mess if it isnt planned out carefully.

If the Federation/Starfleet has it in the future then the other civilisations will have it otherwise there is no sense of threat.

They could tie it all in to the temporal cold war but that would defeat the purpose of taking Discovery outside the confines of canon.

Many shows over the years have tried time travel but not many have pulled it off, it can work though as shown by shows like B5 (who used it sparingly) and 12 Monkeys (which was the core of the show), they had a plan from the start and stuck to it, helps when the plug isnt pulled prematurely as well by the suits.

Discovery's narratives dont feel like they have been planned anything like as well, not so far anyway, that is the problem with having a save the federation/galaxy overarching story every season, if the story falls flat and doesnt work it can drag down the whole season and overshadow what actually did work.

The script writers are replaced and the show goes off in a completely different direction because the wrong lessons were learned from the previous season, it then just makes it look like the show has no one in the drivers seat and the show runners are just throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks.

 

[Nenya]

Discovery's narratives dont feel like they have been planned anything like as well, not so far anyway, that is the problem with having a save the federation/galaxy overarching story every season, if the story falls flat and doesnt work it can drag down the whole season and overshadow what actually did work.

The script writers are replaced and the show goes off in a completely different direction because the wrong lessons were learned from the previous season, it then just makes it look like the show has no one in the drivers seat and the show runners are just throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks.

Well said. This show seems to have been doomed from the start.

 

[NewHeavensNewEarth]

Well said. This show seems to have been doomed from the start.

Yeah it's so doomed that it's entering its 3rd season.

 

[Gonzo]

Well said. This show seems to have been doomed from the start.

I would not go that far but it does beg the question as to how the show would have done with the original premise before all the changes occurred behind the scenes.

Hopefully they have a plan now that they can deliver on, the Discovery is now in the future which gives them free rein but it may also turn some viewers off as they were watching the show because of the time period it was originally set in.

It is risky.

 

[Nenya]

Yeah it's so doomed that it's entering its 3rd season.

I remember when I was waiting outside the theater before Nemesis started. Another person in line said something to the effect of, "It doesn't matter if it's bad, we're gonna watch it anyway." That's how we are. Season 1 was two different stories smashed together; same with season 2. There are enough people in the fanbase that will pay for new Star Trek to keep it going. Other shows get cancelled because they aren't good and not enough people watched it. Just because enough people watch it doesn't mean it's good.

 

[Nenya]

I would not go that far but it does beg the question as to how the show would have done with the original premise before all the changes occurred behind the scenes.

Hopefully they have a plan now that they can deliver on, the Discovery is now in the future which gives them free rein but it may also turn some viewers off as they were watching the show because of the time period it was originally set in.

It is risky.

What was the original premise supposed to be anyway? Wasn't the show supposed to be about something that was mentioned in TOS? I don't understand how Bryan Fuller would be ok with holographic communications and all the other incongruity when it comes to the technology.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I remember when I was waiting outside the theater before Nemesis started. Another person in line said something to the effect of, "It doesn't matter if it's bad, we're gonna watch it anyway."

Considering Nemesis convinced Paramount to pull the plug on the films, I am not sure this is a good comparison. Not only is Kurtzman still making Discovery, he has convinced CBS to let him to spin Star Trek off into more directions.

 

[Yistaan]

Personally I'd be fine with Discovery ignoring the future starfleet/federation as depicted in Voyager and Enterprise. Those futures that we see are fun to glimpse at, but ultimately from a storytelling perspective they're pretty boring. There's no drama if the Federation has no limitations and can never be threatened by anything, ever because they can control time.

Just because a society can control time doesn't mean they can't be threatened or destroyed. Just ask the Time Lords of Gallifrey from Doctor Who, who were very much destroyed for a time.

Yeah it's so doomed that it's entering its 3rd season.

Er... didn't TOS only last 3 seasons after barely making it to the third...?