Battlestar Galactica getting rebooted (again) for NBS's streaming service

[Bad Robot]

I enjoyed Blood and Chrome for what it was. As a webseries I thought the FX were better than they could've been, but if it had been a television series I would've liked them to touch up the FX. I also felt being a webseries constricted the show's character development, but for the most part I thought the casting was fine. I had my quibbles that they didn't get the guy who played Young Adama from "Razor" back, but the actor they did get wasn't bad, and I think he played a less seasoned Colonial warrior in a way the "Razor" guy perhaps couldn't, because he came across as more grizzled.

I would like to see a BSG film franchise. The scope of the original series fits a theatrical treatment, and if I recall, the pilot did get a theatrical release. I would love to see a new spin on the material, though at the same time I would love to see whoever from the original series who wanted to come back, to have a role in it.

Don't know if you are familiar with Tom DeSanto's and Bryan Singer's BSG series. Granted, Singer's involvement today would be very problematic but I do think they were on to something back then.

Not familiar enough to usually remember DeSanto's name next to Singer's. I think I'd heard (after the fact) that it was a direct sequel, but had trouble visualizing such a thing as having more potential than Larson's and Hatch's attempted revivals, and didn't quite believe that was really what it was (for I also knew it had partially-organic Cylons). I'd always wished we could have seen both his AND Moore's BSG, but of course such a thing is almost never possible. It's striking though how many similarities there are between the what we got and what DeSanto almost brought us.

It's also ironic that Singer was initially involved in the now forever-delayed plans to reboot BSG into a movie franchise. Seems that guy's really had Battlestar on the brain.

Listening to those clips was like watching Jodorowsky's DUNE (excellent documentary). Thanks for linking those.

 

[EnderAKH]

Only CBS knows how it's doing.

True.

But they started planning all these spin-offs prior to working the bugs out of STD.

They announced that they were working on several new series months after the end of season 1, by which time they had a pretty good idea how many people were watching. If viewership numbers had gone down dramatically after season 2, any fiscally responsible company would have pulled the plug.

And after two seasons STD is still an incoherent mess (more than it was after 1st season in fact).

Matter of opinion, I disagree.

And isn't it supposed to be the most expensive TV show ever made?

Not even close. It runs around $8 million an episode. Game of Thrones was $15 million per episode. The Crown on Netflix is $13 million per episode. ER was also $13 million. Friends at the end as $10 million per episode. Big Bang Theory was $9 million. Etc.

 

[Bad Robot]

If any franchise has proven to be immune from the passage of time, it's BSG (and of course Trek). It took me a while to get in to Caprica but once I did I loved the show.

NuBSG did seem to have a definitive end to it, but why can't BSG do what Trek did with TNG? There were plenty of fans who complained that we don't need a reboot of the BSG 70's show. But we ended up getting something great.

I'm not advocating for a reboot of '04 BSG, but I see no reason why another BSG spinoff or maybe even a reboot of Caprica would have to necessarily be bad. Sam Esmail is at least as good a storyteller as RDM, and truth be told, better. The fact that this guy wants the BSG franchise makes me kinda tingly inside.

The idea of a show may sound like something you don't need, but that has no bearing on how good (or bad) the actual show might be.

To distill everything I've said about the Moore BSG, my general attitude about it is it's done. It's over with. It's on DVD and Blu-Ray, go watch it.

The closest comparison would be Babylon 5. Once it finished it's five years, it was done. Both series tried to make spin-offs, and each one got canceled more quickly than the one before.

I would rather see another version entirely than another obscure appendage to Moore's version. Doesn't matter, they're doing it. When more details are known maybe I'll decide to check it out.

And even Star Trek couldn't do what TNG did, which is why the latter Berman Trek shows got so stale.

 

[David cgc]

What else has been tossed around in this thread? A Lords of Kobal series? Audiences are supposed to know what that is and be interested in it?

People were interested in Middle Earth and Westeros. "Westeros" is even in my computer's spell-check, for God's sake. Automatically, I never talk about Game of Thrones, I didn't put it there.

 

[DarKush]

To distill everything I've said about the Moore BSG, my general attitude about it is it's done. It's over with. It's on DVD and Blu-Ray, go watch it.

The closest comparison would be Babylon 5. Once it finished it's five years, it was done. Both series tried to make spin-offs, and each one got canceled more quickly than the one before.

I would rather see another version entirely than another obscure appendage to Moore's version. Doesn't matter, they're doing it. When more details are known maybe I'll decide to check it out.

And even Star Trek couldn't do what TNG did, which is why the latter Berman Trek shows got so stale.

The Babylon 5 comparison is interesting. Hadn't considered that before. I will say that Crusade's failure had a lot to do with studio interference, IMO. But LOTR, even though I personally liked it, was pretty much ignored by the masses, and when it wasn't, it got slammed by what seemed like many other fans. Yes, I think because the B5 story wrapped up, with the ending set up in the opening credits prologue ('this is the last of the Babylon stations') so you can't just have a Babylon 6 revival series. I also think the Moore BSG series is done; though there is some room to explore the First Cylon War, or maybe even the Colonials living on Earth, but I don't see either (especially the Colonials on Earth) being a long-running series. Perhaps doing some Moore-BSG revival miniseries or television movies. But overall, I would like to see another new take on the material instead of reviving new BSG. Reviving original BSG I would like to see that though. The original series didn't get to tell their story as fully as the Moore series.

 

[Bad Robot]

True.

They announced that they were working on several new series months after the end of season 1, by which time they had a pretty good idea how many people were watching. If viewership numbers had gone down dramatically after season 2, any fiscally responsible company would have pulled the plug.

Matter of opinion, I disagree.

Not even close. It runs around $8 million an episode. Game of Thrones was $15 million per episode. The Crown on Netflix is $13 million per episode. ER was also $13 million. Friends at the end as $10 million per episode. Big Bang Theory was $9 million. Etc.

Ok I'm having serious trouble grasping how a couple TV sitcoms could cost more per episode than ST's most expensive series. The other figures sound about right.

Go check out RedLetterMedia's Re:View commentaries on STD, specifically the one for Season 2. It highlights just how little most of the plot developments from one episode to the next make any sense. I feel like I would need to have early stage Alzheimer's in order to pretend that I was actually watching a somewhat cohesive story.

CBS hasn't pulled the plug because they're trying to launch a Trek franchise as the primary vehicle for their streaming service. And I said at the end of Season One they should be focusing their attention on fixing that show instead of launching five new ones. But now I suspect STD is just being kept alive for a third season as placeholder.

 

[Marc]

The only question I have is, what happened to Adama's Raptor? Were there other planes that weren't flown into the sun? It wasn't onscreen, I don't think, but the NatGeo in the RDM shot mentioned them finding it.

The raptors were blown up. Thought I'd read years ago that they had footage of them blowing up as characters walked away but can't confirm that.

Did find a reddit threat where some-one asked the very same question and it mention's RDM's comments.

https://www.reddit.com/r/BSG/comments/2l2orf/what_happened_to_the_admirals_raptor/

We can only assume that Adama blew his up as well.

 

[Bad Robot]

The Babylon 5 comparison is interesting. Hadn't considered that before. I will say that Crusade's failure had a lot to do with studio interference, IMO. But LOTR, even though I personally liked it, was pretty much ignored by the masses, and when it wasn't, it got slammed by what seemed like many other fans. Yes, I think because the B5 story wrapped up, with the ending set up in the opening credits prologue ('this is the last of the Babylon stations') so you can't just have a Babylon 6 revival series. I also think the Moore BSG series is done; though there is some room to explore the First Cylon War, or maybe even the Colonials living on Earth, but I don't see either (especially the Colonials on Earth) being a long-running series. Perhaps doing some Moore-BSG revival miniseries or television movies. But overall, I would like to see another new take on the material instead of reviving new BSG. Reviving original BSG I would like to see that though. The original series didn't get to tell their story as fully as the Moore series.

I would have loved to see more of what JMS had in store for Crusade. But yeah, TNT clearly didn't feel the numbers were there and they weren't having it. Rangers I watched and hoped for it to get picked up, but honestly I couldn't see what JMS was doing with it that we didn't already have B5 for. And I think I'm in full agreement with what you said on BSG (though for me it wouldn't matter if it was a continuation of Larson's version, though hopefully updated and with much better writing, or a new remake entirely. I just feel Moore's version did its thing, and my anticipation for this series can at present best be described as a passing curiousity).

 

[EnderAKH]

Ok I'm having serious trouble grasping how a couple TV sitcoms could cost more per episode than ST's most expensive series. The other figures sound about right.

Salaries. The 6 principal cast.members of Friends in seasons 7 and 8 were making about $750k per actor per episode and $1 million per actor per episode in seasons 9 and 10, so that's $6 million right there. It was similar for the later seasons of Big Bang as well. When you are the stars of the highest rated show on TV, you get a high salary.

Go check out RedLetterMedia's Re:View commentaries on STD, specifically the one for Season 2. It highlights just how little most of the plot developments from one episode to the next make any sense.

Thank you, but no. I followed the shows just fine. I don't go out and find media to try to talk me out of enjoying something I enjoyed. I like to like things. It makes me happy. I for the life of me do not understand the mindset to tell someone to go watch something to try to talk them out of liking something.

 

[cylkoth]

CBS hasn't pulled the plug because they're trying to launch a Trek franchise as the primary vehicle for their streaming service. And I said at the end of Season One they should be focusing their attention on fixing that show instead of launching five new ones. But now I suspect STD is just being kept alive for a third season as placeholder.

Or maybe, just maybe, the show is doing well for them, paying for itself through the often repeated foreign distribution sale to Netflix where THEY RECOUP PRODUCTION COSTS BEFORE PRODUCTION EVER STARTS! Which led to them selling "ST:Picard to Amazon for international distribution in a similar deal!
Maybe, just maybe, a show you don't care for (no doubt joining a long list of shows produced over the decades), is doing just well without your support and its owners in no way shape or form consider it a placeholder.

You're a science fiction aficionado. You can handle something as simple as an alternate point of view. C'mon, try it! It'll make you feel all warm and tingly inside... !

 

[Noname Given]

Ok I'm having serious trouble grasping how a couple TV sitcoms could cost more per episode than ST's most expensive series. The other figures sound about right.

For "Friends" near the end of it's run and because of it's HUGE popularity, the cost of the lead cast alone was near $8 million an episode - yes, they paid each A LOT per episode top keep going after the initial contract terms ran their course.

 

[Bad Robot]

Thank you, but no. I followed the shows just fine. I don't go out and find media to try to talk me out of enjoying something I enjoyed. I like to like things. It makes me happy. I for the life of me do not understand the mindset to tell someone to go watch something to try to talk them out of liking something.

The mindset is: I'm not going to pretend STD doesn't have the most holes, and the most meaningless soap opera gloss, of any Trek show ever seen. It's a show about nothing. It's a show that after two years still doesn't have a premise. And I can't live in a bubble where I tell myself this is actually a great show (and that anyone who thinks otherwise must have had their opinions formed for them because those opinions are too inconvenient). If you feel confidently enough in your experiences with the show then it shouldn't matter what opposing criticism you expose yourself to.

I loved the show just for not being Berman Trek. I loved the casting, the directing, the production values and the revisionist production design (which a lot of fans immediately rejected). But twice now they can't through two-thirds of a season arc without exposing that they never actually had a story.

Or maybe, just maybe, the show is doing well for them, paying for itself through the often repeated foreign distribution sale to Netflix where THEY RECOUP PRODUCTION COSTS BEFORE PRODUCTION EVER STARTS! Which led to them selling "ST:Picard to Amazon for international distribution in a similar deal!
Maybe, just maybe, a show you don't care for (no doubt joining a long list of shows produced over the decades), is doing just well without your support and its owners in no way shape or form consider it a placeholder.

You're a science fiction aficionado. You can handle something as simple as an alternate point of view. C'mon, try it! It'll make you feel all warm and tingly inside... !

Who knows, CBS won't show their numbers. But if they privately did still have every bit of confidence in STD (and all twenty-one of its producers) as they continue to insist in public, it would NOT be a promising sign for any of their other ST series.

But what did they do with STD second season? They listened to the endless gripes of fans (never a good thing to do, and many of those gripes superficial in nature), and apparently 'fixing' the show in the way that fans wanted and "syncing up with canon" was more important than learning the REAL mistakes of 1st season and having a fully outlined story this time. And now they've erased seasons 1-2 through some gobbledygook bureaucratic red tape (their way of "syncing up with canon") and moved the ship ahead 900 years to start fresh (or as fresh as any serialized program with the baggage of its own history will allow). Do you really think the show is not in trouble?

 

[EnderAKH]

The mindset is: I'm not going to pretend STD doesn't have the most holes, and the most meaningless soap opera gloss, of any Trek show ever seen. It's a show about nothing. It's a show that after two years still doesn't have a premise. And I can't live in a bubble where I tell myself this is actually a great show (and that anyone who thinks otherwise must have had their opinions formed for them because those opinions are too inconvenient). If you feel confidently enough in your experiences with the show then it shouldn't matter what opposing criticism you expose yourself to.

I loved the show just for not being Berman Trek. I loved the casting, the directing, the production values and the revisionist production design (which a lot of fans immediately rejected). But twice now they can't through two-thirds of a season arc without exposing that they never actually had a story.

Well, you do you. I respect that you have a differing opinion from mine. Be well, my friend.

 

[bigdaddy]

I will never ever watch the hot mess that is STD but they did fix my main complaint, the Klingons no longer look insanely stupid.

 

[Skipper]

I'm not an STD hater.

Annnnnd that's enough.

 

[theenglish]

Go check out RedLetterMedia's Re:View commentaries on STD, specifically the one for Season 2. It highlights just how little most of the plot developments from one episode to the next make any sense. I feel like I would need to have early stage Alzheimer's in order to pretend that I was actually watching a somewhat cohesive story.

I just finished watching both seasons of the show as I had not paid for streaming access before--watched it on Crave. I'm going to have to disagree on this -- there wasn't any greater degree of nitpicky things than most series. In fact, I was impressed by how well done and engaging both seasons were given the criticism that I've seen on this board. Most of my issues have to do with inconsistencies with other series--but in general I found it engaging and, even without Alzheimer's, held together well.

 

[urbandefault]

No it doesn't. ...And I doubt the finding of an ancient spaceship would only rate a mention in an article about mitochondrial Eve.

I guess this is what I was thinking about:

 

[DarKush]

I would have loved to see more of what JMS had in store for Crusade. But yeah, TNT clearly didn't feel the numbers were there and they weren't having it. Rangers I watched and hoped for it to get picked up, but honestly I couldn't see what JMS was doing with it that we didn't already have B5 for. And I think I'm in full agreement with what you said on BSG (though for me it wouldn't matter if it was a continuation of Larson's version, though hopefully updated and with much better writing, or a new remake entirely. I just feel Moore's version did its thing, and my anticipation for this series can at present best be described as a passing curiousity).

With LOTR, I wasn't sure what it's reason for being was. The Hand felt like a retread of the Shadows. Maybe if the lead character had been Sheridan and Delenn's son that would've pushed the story forward. It's a shame though that we never got that Memory of Shadows movie or that the B5 straight-to-video movies flamed out. I like the universe, but unfortunately there was a self-imposed limit on it, which looking back, not sure why JMS felt a need to do that.

As for BSG, I agree that Moore's version did it's thing. That being said, there are some corners (like the first Cylon War that I still really would like to see) that could be fleshed out, but that could be done just as easily in a webseries, novels, or comics, and some of it has. Moore's BSG even put a brake on doing a spin off Battlestar Pegasus series.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Moore's BSG even put a brake on doing a spin off Battlestar Pegasus series.

Which was a good thing, IMO. A show about a ship full of psychotic murderers and rapists probably wouldn’t last long and do no favors for the franchise as a whole. Think about what would happen about a Trek show permanently set in the almost-comical Mirror Universe. The short bits we’ve seen in DS9, Enteprise and Disco were nearly too much. It was a good foil to use as a source of tension with the Galactica crew, but I don’t think I would want a whole show about that.

 

[Bad Robot]

I just finished watching both seasons of the show as I had not paid for streaming access before--watched it on Crave. I'm going to have to disagree on this -- there wasn't any greater degree of nitpicky things than most series. In fact, I was impressed by how well done and engaging both seasons were given the criticism that I've seen on this board. Most of my issues have to do with inconsistencies with other series--but in general I found it engaging and, even without Alzheimer's, held together well.

OMG! The whole S2 plot was a snake that eats its own tail until it swallows its stomach! It is unfathomable to me that anyone can watch this thing at all and not see that (or refuse to see it).

The Enterprise was crippled while investigating the red pulses. How and why? Did Michael Burnham cripple it when she retroactively sent those pulses in the last episode? If so, why?

How did Culber come back? WHAT came back? What was he doing in the mycelial network? He was there because Stamuts conjured him up. He's a MEMORY.

(What if you could imagine your mother back into existence? What would she be? She'd be just the minuscule aspects of her former personality that you actually thought you understood. She'd be able to behave only like you expected. You didn't really know her at all. I think I just came up with a really creepy Twilight Zone premise.)

But this of course makes no sense, so let's just move on (which they did!).

Why did Section 31 frame Spock for murder? What purpose would that serve? They already had him. Or they'd already lost him. Did Section 31 kill the people to cover up having framed Spock for murdering them? Or the AI framed him because the dead people were holograms? What would the AI gain by framing him? Don't know? Just move on?

When did this show suddenly become about the evil AI (as fans everywhere suddenly predicted it would in zombie-like fashion because they were lapping it up)? When Discovery's shuttlecraft encountered it in the timewarp? Was it a Red Angel timewarp? Or some other completely random timewarp? Or wait, it's Section 31's AI? But it's also from the future?

(What was Discovery even doing in the area? Investigating another red pulse? Could Burnham have avoided the AI ever becoming a threat by just not sending out those pulses in the last episode? There's the snake. I just unraveled the whole season for you, you're welcome.)

They killed the AI by demagnetizing it, or magnetizing it, or something? Great, why did Discovery still have to strand itself in the future? Oh right, that's the most obvious question and you're tired of stupid people asking it.

How many shuttlecraft actually fit inside these ships? In all the time it takes to render them, shouldn't somebody have said "Wait, this is too many?"

And just like that, all of Saru's people can fly around in space fighters (with actual combat skill) because they've discovered technology?

Tyler's son lives in an accelerated state on the Klingon monastery planet. How does that work? Does he age faster? Or does time simply flow faster? Let's go with the latter, since I think he'd be a babbling infant in a metabolically starved adult body if he simply aged faster. Is he dead by now? What, there's this nexus of rapidly-flowing time on the Klingon monastery planet just because of the presence of the time crystals? What kind of science fantasy is this?

Klingons grow really long hair in just a couple of days? Discovery's literally been to the asteroid and to New Eden before they came back to Qo'nos. But I guess it doesn't matter, the show fixed what was "really" wrong with itself according to the fans, and even hand-waved it within the show's dialog because fans would expect no less.

This is exhausting. I gotta go catch Arrietty in theater.