Poll Are you enjoying Section 31?

[Grendelsbayne]

I don't get preferring that Starfleet Intelligence do what Section 31 does. Doesn't that make Starfleet the same as Section 31? I prefer they be kept separate.

Before someone says, "I prefer they don't exist!" That ship has already sailed... It's in New Trek, Old Trek, and one of the films.

It's not a question of wanting SI to be exactly like S31. It's just that there are two possibilites:

Either S31 is still just as bad or close to as bad, in which case, making them overtly sanctioned is problematic in all kinds of ways. The story would be far better served by just making the story officially about Starfleet Intelligence and then including some agents among the cast who are secretly S31, because a setup like that would allow you to tell exactly the same sort of story without any of the same issues and would enrich the narrative possibilities to boot.

Or S31 is not as bad, or maybe it could be or couldn't be, like the story is about a fight for the soul of S31 or something similar. In that case (especially in combination with the totally overt operations), you've just retconned everything that made S31 what it is out of existence so there's really no point even using the name. Might as well just call it Starfleet Intelligence and leave some possibilities open for the future.

 

[Rahul]

I didn’t find the Section 31 storyline as objectionable as I feared I might. That said, I didn’t find it much of anything. It was just sort of there, and I remain uninterested in a potential spinoff.

To be honest - as a whole the storyline sucks balls. The Star Trek universe is full with billions of life-forms, some incredibly violent, others advanced beyond imagination, aliens that are scary, like the Borg, incomprehensible like the creators of the whale probe, there are beings as scary as the crystaline entity, and magical like the Organians.

And you gonna' tell me that a third-grade human crime prediction program ("Control") is the ONE thing that's going to be successfull to destroy ALL biological life in the galaxy? That's so fucking stupid.

The best part of the S31 story was Leland butting heads with Pike. I liked their relationship and thought it was a missed opportunity that the writers didn’t do more with it.

My favourite part too. Also I really enjoyed the covert spy stuff in the first half of the season, because that was kinda' cool.

 

[Rahul]

As a sidenote:
I'm still convinced that the original plan was to make "Control" the origin of the Borg (which would have been a whole other level of stupid) - but they decided not to in the very last few seconds (probably re-writing the last episodes on the fly) - simply because of the upcoming Picard show, and to leave the Borg as an empty slate for them, thinking PIC will be the bigger draw for new (and old) audiences.

 

[fireproof78]

And you gonna' tell me that a third-grade human crime prediction program ("Control") is the ONE thing that's going to be successfull to destroy all biological life in the galaxy? That's so fucking stupid.

Why? It would come from a place of security, with the Federation pushing for more predictive power. As a storytelling device it makes perfect sense, since it taps in to current politics (surveillance state and AI) as well as humans being destroyed by their own creation. This is classic storytelling here, and really is doing what Star Trek set out to do in the first place.

 

[Gonzo]

I didn’t find the Section 31 storyline as objectionable as I feared I might. That said, I didn’t find it much of anything. It was just sort of there, and I remain uninterested in a potential spinoff.

The best part of the S31 story was Leland butting heads with Pike. I liked their relationship and thought it was a missed opportunity that the writers didn’t do more with it.

I was surprised when they killed off Leland as well, he looked like an interesting character and could have worked as a co lead in S31 as he would be the last one standing at the end along with Tyler and Georgiou.

Bit of a waste if you ask me.

To be honest - as a whole the storyline sucks balls. The Star Trek universe is full with billions of life-forms, some incredibly violent, others advanced beyond imagination, aliens that are scary, like the Borg, incomprehensible like the creators of the whale probe, there are beings as scary as the crystaline entity, and magical like the Organians.

And you gonna' tell me that a third-grade human crime prediction program ("Control") is the ONE thing that's going to be successfull to destroy ALL biological life in the galaxy? That's so fucking stupid.

My favourite part too. Also I really enjoyed the covert spy stuff in the first half of the season, because that was kinda' cool.

As a sidenote:
I'm still convinced that the original plan was to make "Control" the origin of the Borg (which would have been a whole other level of stupid) - but they decided not to in the very last few seconds (probably re-writing the last episodes on the run) - simply because of the upcoming Picard show, and to leave the Borg as an empty slate for them, thinking PIC will be the bigger draw for new (and old) audiences.

Yeah its another case of it feeling like the writers/producers changed their minds halfway through the season after they realised they would never get away with making Control the origin of the Borg.

So many plot holes even I found it a bit jarring at times, all Control had to do was make backups of himself or leave just one ship safe from the battle, the whole time travel aspect feels like its been tacked on at the end, I really thought they were going somewhere interesting with the addition of Pike and the first half of the season hence why I found it an improvement on the first season, Lorca was great though until they made him MU, all they had to do was make him a member of S31 who had been to the other side and had the scars to prove it.

I think another mistake was making the Red Angel all about Burnham, it was another eye roll moment which the whole universe saw coming as soon as we were outright told the suit was dna locked.

I always enjoyed the S31 stuff with Bashir in DS9 and the various plotlines given to the Garak character especially when he duped the Romulans into entering the war, should have been more of them as they worked well.

 

[Dukhat]

I enjoyed them on DS9 when they served as a foil to Bashir's fantasies of superspy heroism, but stripped of that very specific context they suck.

I've mentioned this before, but the reason S31 worked for me in DS9 was because the audience never really knew if Section 31 actually existed or if Sloane was just fucking with Bashir and he had his own motives. And if that would have been all it was, then I think that would have worked better. Keep the audience guessing as to what was really going on. But instead we find out right away that it's just the KGB in space, with the accompanying evil black uniforms to boot. That's why I hate the very idea of Section 31; as an organization it's just a very thin plot device mostly used when people don't have any better ideas, and it doesn't seem to change, grow, or adapt at all whether it's the 22nd century, the 23rd, or the 24th (or even an alternate universe.) It's just stereotypical 'covert organization with no oversight' nonsense.

And now apparently some genius at CBS thinks that it would be a great idea to make an entire series about said nonsensical organization. I'm counting down the days.

 

[Nyotarules]

It's not what Section 31 was in 1998. It is what Section 31 has been since 2013.

Yes, someone made a big change but... that's Star Trek.

Retcons are one of the Prime Directive rules lol

 

[The Wormhole]

I was surprised when they killed off Leland as well, he looked like an interesting character and could have worked as a co lead in S31 as he would be the last one standing at the end along with Tyler and Georgiou.

Eh, it seemed very obvious early on to me that Leland was just a foil for Georgiou to overcome. And while I didn't predict him becoming possessed by Control, that's more or less how his story played out.

 

[Gonzo]

Eh, it seemed very obvious early on to me that Leland was just a foil for Georgiou to overcome. And while I didn't predict him becoming possessed by Control, that's more or less how his story played out.

I was hoping for some clever play from him but in the end there was little to his character really, not surprising as he was not long for the chop anyway.

 

[JalCulluh]

Don't particularly care for them having their own branding and whatnot, but it was bizarre how neutral Discovery's take on them was. Especially when they're essentially let off the hook by having Control go rogue.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Don't particularly care for them having their own branding and whatnot, but it was bizarre how neutral Discovery's take on them was. Especially when they're essentially let off the hook by having Control go rogue.

Aren't they all dead?

 

[JalCulluh]

Aren't they all dead?

Oh yeah, I mean in terms of the show letting 31 off the hook by having their AI go rogue and not really critiquing the organisation themselves. Doesn't exactly play like pro-31 as such, just a very middling take.

 

[JalCulluh]

Just seemed like a bit of cop-out to me.

 

[fireproof78]

Oh yeah, I mean in terms of the show letting 31 off the hook by having their AI go rogue and not really critiquing the organisation themselves. Doesn't exactly play like pro-31 as such, just a very middling take.

Which demonstrates more confidence in the audience to make their own conclusion.

 

[JalCulluh]

Which demonstrates more confidence in the audience to make their own conclusion.

Sure, and I don't mean to say they have to tell us how to feel, just that I felt the show was unclear about what it was trying to say.

 

[fireproof78]

Sure, and I don't mean to say they have to tell us how to feel, just that I felt the show was unclear about what it was trying to say.

I think it was unclear on purpose, allowing the audience to wrestle with that question. In this day and age, when authorities and institutions are less trustworthy in the public eye allowing the audience come to their own thinking.

Maybe I'm reading too much into this but I think it is highly appropriate.

 

[Rahul]

Eh, it seemed very obvious early on to me that Leland was just a foil for Georgiou to overcome. And while I didn't predict him becoming possessed by Control, that's more or less how his story played out.

I don't know. I was hoping for more of a facing off with Pike.

These two were clearly set up as two opposing worldviews inside Starfleet, and their former friendship really made things interesting. It could have been a great way to show why Pike succeeds and Leland fails - as a result to their approach! Pike succeeding because his people trust him, and Leland failing because his people (very well Georgiou) stab him in his back.

 

[Morpheus 02]

I've mentioned this before, but the reason S31 worked for me in DS9 was because the audience never really knew if Section 31 actually existed or if Sloane was just fucking with Bashir and he had his own motives. And if that would have been all it was, then I think that would have worked better. Keep the audience guessing as to what was really going on. But instead we find out right away that it's just the KGB in space, with the accompanying evil black uniforms to boot. That's why I hate the very idea of Section 31; as an organization it's just a very thin plot device mostly used when people don't have any better ideas, and it doesn't seem to change, grow, or adapt at all whether it's the 22nd century, the 23rd, or the 24th (or even an alternate universe.) It's just stereotypical 'covert organization with no oversight' nonsense.

And now apparently some genius at CBS thinks that it would be a great idea to make an entire series about said nonsensical organization. I'm counting down the days.

I agree... i personally would have made section 31 this obscure clause that set aside resources for some vague purpose...some resources which were traded over the years for some nefarious things.

But Discovery making them the Starfleet Tal Shiar...that every one seems to know about...stupid.

And the series... while I like the actors who portray the characters... don't think this helps the Tyler character (who i am still confused about) and Georgiou (though Yeoh seems to thoroughly enjoy the role)

I don't know. I was hoping for more of a facing off with Pike.

These two were clearly set up as two opposing worldviews inside Starfleet, and their former friendship really made things interesting. It could have been a great way to show why Pike succeeds and Leland fails - as a result to their approach! Pike succeeding because his people trust him, and Leland failing because his people (very well Georgiou) stab him in his back.

Indeed...even just a scene of Pike trying to reach out to his friend in there...or anticipating a strategy would have been nice.

 

[Brainsucker]

It is better if they merge Section 31 with Pike show, rather than we have a Mission Impossible Star Trek version.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

It is better if they merge Section 31 with Pike show, rather than we have a Mission Impossible Star Trek version.

No thanks. If they're determined to make S31 a thing, then for the love of god put it in its own separate show where I can ignore it if it turns out as bad as it seems it will be. A possible Pike series has too much potential to be something really different to all the other series they're making (in a good way) to get shackled right back to S31 stories from the beginning.