The Last Jedi - Actually Widely Hated?

[Campe]

I remember when Disney touted that they would release a new SW film once a year indefinitely. I guess.. what.. something happened?

Right. Solo happened. Cue the “but it’s really Last Jedi’s fault” whining.

<Narrator: It wasn’t.>

Oh and RJ still thinks he is making his trilogy and can't get the hint that it's not happening.

Where’s the proof in that? Because the GoT guys are doing their stuff first? LFL is still figuring things out regarding scheduling. If they choose to not make the RJ trilogy, oh well. But until we get some real news to the contrary, just because you don’t want something doesn’t make it out to not be happening.

These are realities of the effect of TLJ

<Narrator: They weren’t.>

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

haha so naive .. I mean Rian Came out and said just .. yesterday I think.. that Lucasfilm still has to work out their timetable. Yet.. I believed they announced their timetable in full a few months ago. Sorry Rian.. even Iger didn't mention your trilogy when he spoke about the future. Rian is the only one one who talks about it. It's like that girl that is not interested anymore but she won't say it.. most guys can pick up the hints. Also I'm sure that TLJ and how die-hards felt had nothing to do with Solo losing money

 

[Campe]

haha so naive .. I mean Rian Came out and said just .. yesterday I think.. that Lucasfilm still has to work out their timetable. Yet.. I believed they announced their timetable in full a few months ago. Sorry Rian.. even Iger didn't mention your trilogy when he spoke about the future. Rian is the only one one who talks about it. It's like that girl that is not interested anymore but she won't say it.. most guys can pick up the hints. Also I'm sure that TLJ and how die-hards felt had nothing to do with Solo losing money

I don’t even know why I waste my time with you.

 

[fireproof78]

And Iger himself said that they'd be slowing down the films.

Iger owned the fact that releasing Solo so soon after TLJ was a mistake. He also acknowledged that their marketing sucked. There are a many factors that impacted Solo, but TLJ is not one of them, given its performance at the box office.

But TLJ just trampled on the character, didn't provide sufficient worldbuilding, and was as cynical as movies like Departed (minus the language) than SW. I don't know.. I think I see a gap between the dissatisfaction with ESB and the dissatisfaction with TLJ, they are not the same

Nope. I personally can acknowledge ESB as a well made film but not for a second do I enjoy it. I see it far more cynical than TLJ largely because it paints Obi-Wan as liar (awesome hero) and that the good people do can result in evil (Vader). Not a very enjoyable, or optimistic, film. Oh, and Luke possibly becoming Vader in a vision. Also fantastic.

ESB only becomes enjoyable and optimistic if watched with ROTJ. Before that, Han was potentially dead, Luke damaged and innocence lost, and the base destroyed by the Empire. Super optimistic...right...

RJ still thinks he is making his trilogy and can't get the hint that it's not happening.

Do we have proof or just idle internet speculation? Because Hollywood studios are not in the habit of stringing directors along without telling them what's what. That's bad business.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

TLJ made a lot of money, but not allowing Luke to speak until the film started was a huge reason it made a billion. People were going to see it. But the effects of people HATING it affected Solo (it might not be the only reason Solo failed but it was a big one)

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Aso did you watch Empire, or even listen to the score?

 

[yotsuya]

Disney has only released there schedule for a few years. If the RJ trilogy is happening later, it wouldn't be on the schedule yet.

And I was just reading about the 2008 Clone Wars film and the horrible and negative critic reaction to it ... followed by the huge fan acceptance of the series and huge disappointment when season 6 was cancelled (and now it is even being finished). So first reactions are not really true reactions. And I was one of the people who saw TESB back in 1980 and I know that for many years it was my least favorite of the OT.

 

[Professor Zoom]

TLJ made a lot of money, but not allowing Luke to speak until the film started was a huge reason it made a billion.

No movie makes a billion dollars without good word of mouth and repeat viewing.
Unless literally everyone showed up for the opening weekend--which they didn't--TLJ had legs. People liked it. And wanted to see it. You can keep creating justifications, but, you're objectively wrong.
The only thing you are right about is that you don't like the movie.

 

[Crewman6]

The lack of binary suns might also be an issue with the “reality” factor of creating Tatooine.

Batuu has three suns. For SoCal and central Florida, that feels about right.

 

[Crewman6]

Here's the thing that I am noticing, among Star Wars fans in particular, but media in general. Any sort of exploration of darker themes, like failure, must be couched in the heroes success. Not just in a metaphorical sense, but in a physical victory sense. Otherwise, it is viewed as a "deconstruction" that is not in the spirit of the original work.

I find this confusing..."any media in general" must have darkness couched in success?

Um, gotta disagree with you on that one, friend.

 

[Campe]

Batuu has three suns. For SoCal and central Florida, that feels about right.

I did not know that.

 

[Crewman6]

I
To be fair, you are looking at the dissatisfaction with ESB through extreme hindsight. It has been almost forty years since the release of ESB. Now, it is viewed by some as a masterpiece. But, if you look at the immediate reaction, you'll see there was disappointment in ESB. It wasn't what people expected. That's okay. What's different now is that we look at it as a part of a whole story. We don't have that with TLJ. Will it be revered as much as ESB someday? I doubt it. There is so much nostalgic factor in regards to all three of those original movies, we can't see that at the end of the day, as much as we love them, they are popcorn movies. While they are visually stunning and have become a part of the cultural lexicon, they're not particularly groundbreaking in their plotting. Ultimately now because of our connection to the OT, nothing can live up to those films. I bet TLJ will, in some circles, be reconsidered following the release of The Rise of Skywalker. Not everyone. Because some people like to be set in their ways. But some circles.

Ultimately, I think TLJ will ultimately be re-assessed as the only movie in the ST worth a damn. I have very low hopes for ROS given that it was made by JJ Abrams, who has never made a good film and who never had a plan for SW at all, admitting he kicked the Luke Skywalker issue down the field because it was too "hard" to integrate him into TFA.

I think that TLJ will end up being the only film in the trilogy with a vision and something to say instead of just the warmed over nostalgia of TFA and whatever ROS turns out to be.

I hope I'm wrong. I'd be delighted if they somehow managed to bring this wonky trilogy in for a landing. But, given the track record of the creative team, (co-writer Chis Terrio has credits on BvS: DoJ and Justice League), and some of the creative decisions we already know about (like the return of Palpatine), I am not optimistic.

 

[fireproof78]

Aso did you watch Empire, or even listen to the score?

Yup.

 

[Crewman6]

I did not know that.

It's kinda hard to see the other two while you're visiting.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

No movie makes a billion dollars without good word of mouth and repeat viewing.
Unless literally everyone showed up for the opening weekend--which they didn't--TLJ had legs. People liked it. And wanted to see it. You can keep creating justifications, but, you're objectively wrong.
The only thing you are right about is that you don't like the movie.

Toally disagree..TFA made over 2 billion and ended on a cliffhanger.. many many people had to see what happens next. And yes people did like it, but that is eclipsed by the fact that it is SW and people generally liked TFA and wanted to see Luke after 40 years or whatever.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Toally disagree..TFA made over 2 billion and ended on a cliffhanger.. many many people had to see what happens next. And yes people did like it, but that is eclipsed by the fact that it is SW and people generally liked TFA and wanted to see Luke after 40 years or whatever.

It's not an opinion, you can't disagree with it. You can not like it, but its still a fact that you don't make over a billion dollars without repeat viewing and positive word of mouth.

 

[yotsuya]

It's not an opinion, you can't disagree with it. You can not like it, but its still a fact that you don't make over a billion dollars without repeat viewing and positive word of mouth.

All too true.

 

[fireproof78]

It's not an opinion, you can't disagree with it. You can not like it, but its still a fact that you don't make over a billion dollars without repeat viewing and positive word of mouth.

I would love to fail as hard as TLJ has.

 

[ScottJ85]

Apparently they've greenlit a movie based on Knights of the Old Republic, set four thousand years before the events of the original trilogy. Yeah, it's Buzzfeed so take it with as big a grain of salt as you need.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/kateaurthur/new-star-wars-movie-knights-of-the-old-republic

measured this with glimpses of hope and heroes.

I'm starting to wonder if we were even watching the same movie. TLJ was full of those glimpses of hope. All those little hints that Rose and Finn's plan might actually succeed, right up until they get captured at the last minute, the moments leading up to and during the throne room fight where it looks like Rey might actually win Kylo Ren over, even the battle on Crait when it looks like the Resistance might actually be able to hold off the big assault cannon, at least until Poe decides that escape is the better plan.

Nobody's saying you have to enjoy TLJ, but please at least get your facts right.

For what it's worth, the things you're saying really remind me of how I felt about ESB when I first saw it way back in the day.

 

[fireproof78]

For what it's worth, the things you're saying really remind me of how I felt about ESB when I first saw it way back in the day.

Same here. To this day it is still a tough film to watch.