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The Last Jedi - Actually Widely Hated?

fireproof78 said:
Well, the hate has extended to "Galaxy's Edge" because...no, I don't see a reason. I never cared about "Star Tours" (other than waiting in line) and had zero impact on my enjoyment of the films. But, no...we must analyze every part of a theme park attraction to determine if it measures up to whatever standard will ensure it fails.:rolleyes::wtf:

Some one help me understand this.:shrug:
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Clicks. They ultimately don't care about Star Wars. They care about notoriety. Celebrity. Money. They don't want to do real work so they create videos or articles all about their hate. As for certain posters here, I got nothing.
 
fireproof78 said:
Well, the hate has extended to "Galaxy's Edge" because...no, I don't see a reason. I never cared about "Star Tours" (other than waiting in line) and had zero impact on my enjoyment of the films. But, no...we must analyze every part of a theme park attraction to determine if it measures up to whatever standard will ensure it fails.:rolleyes::wtf:

Some one help me understand this.:shrug:
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It's because hating Galaxy's Edge fits their narrative of "DISNEY STAR WARS SUUUUCKS! They're ruining it! They just care about money!!!" And that's not even touching all the sexist and racist shit that almost always comes out of these people's mouths.

And because, rightly or wrongly, GE is "set" during the Sequel Trilogy, so they can lump it in with their ST hate rather tidily and from there, they can spin all the conspiracy/hate/whatever all they want about how Disney is trying to "erase" disrespect the OT or whatever.

GE, like the franchise as a whole, isn't perfect. Lots of good stuff with plenty of flaws. But, as you point out, the latter shouldn't get in the way of enjoying the former.
 
Crewman6 said:
It's because hating Galaxy's Edge fits their narrative of "DISNEY STAR WARS SUUUUCKS! They're ruining it! They just care about money!!!" And that's not even touching all the sexist and racist shit that almost always comes out of these people's mouths.

And because, rightly or wrongly, GE is "set" during the Sequel Trilogy, so they can lump it in with their ST hate rather tidily and from there, they can spin all the conspiracy/hate/whatever all they want about how Disney is trying to "erase" disrespect the OT or whatever.

GE, like the franchise as a whole, isn't perfect. Lots of good stuff with plenty of flaws. But, as you point out, the latter shouldn't get in the way of enjoying the former.
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I thought it was Lucasfilm that is being often sexist or racist.. idk..
And maybe GE would be successful if they actually celebrated Star Wars, not the dollar general version of it. Anyone hear of or care about Batuu..? But if it had been Mos Eisley or something that would be different
 
Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
I thought it was Lucasfilm that is being often sexist or racist.. idk..
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Wow, that's exactly what a racist/sexist would say. You're batting 1000 here. I wasn't even lumping you in with the worst of 'em. Until now.

And maybe GE would be successful if they actually celebrated Star Wars, not the dollar general version of it. Anyone hear of or care about Batuu..? But if it had been Mos Eisley or something that would be different
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I'm happy to discuss the pros and cons of Galaxy's Edge, SW or anything with people who aren't the worst.

but that's clearly not you.
 
Campe98 said:
Again we go in circles.

Mos Eisley is on a desert planet. The illusion would be lost as Anaheim and Orlando get rain. It’d be a little out of universe to see Tatooine get rain.
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In fairness, Anaheim gets about as much rain as the real Tatooine would!

;)
 
Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
adn it embraces an overall cynicism that Star Wars was, at its best, always above..
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alright I keep telling myself I'm leaving this thread alone but I guess I just can't help myself.

I didn't get that impression at all. Sure, it explores cynicism, but it's pretty consistent in portraying that kind of cynicism as a negative thing. One of the major themes is about restoring hope at a time when things seem totally hopeless. The characters learn from their failures and grow, Luke once again embraces his status as a legend to save lives one last time, and the Resistance may be on the run but they're far from defeated, with renewed hope and resolve.

If anything, it shows why that kind of cynicism leads to failure.
 
ScottJ85 said:
alright I keep telling myself I'm leaving this thread alone but I guess I just can't help myself.

I didn't get that impression at all. Sure, it explores cynicism, but it's pretty consistent in portraying that kind of cynicism as a negative thing. One of the major themes is about restoring hope at a time when things seem totally hopeless. The characters learn from their failures and grow, Luke once again embraces his status as a legend to save lives one last time, and the Resistance may be on the run but they're far from defeated, with renewed hope and resolve.

If anything, it shows why that kind of cynicism leads to failure.
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Indeed. Saying TLJ "embraces cynicism" is such a stunning and fundamental misread of the movie and missing of the point that it single-handedly invalidates anything else that poster has to say. Have an opinion, certainly, just don't be...factually wrong.
 
ScottJ85 said:
I didn't get that impression at all. Sure, it explores cynicism, but it's pretty consistent in portraying that kind of cynicism as a negative thing. One of the major themes is about restoring hope at a time when things seem totally hopeless. The characters learn from their failures and grow, Luke once again embraces his status as a legend to save lives one last time, and the Resistance may be on the run but they're far from defeated, with renewed hope and resolve.

If anything, it shows why that kind of cynicism leads to failure.
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Here's the thing that I am noticing, among Star Wars fans in particular, but media in general. Any sort of exploration of darker themes, like failure, must be couched in the heroes success. Not just in a metaphorical sense, but in a physical victory sense. Otherwise, it is viewed as a "deconstruction" that is not in the spirit of the original work.

Never mind the fact that Star Wars was created as modern myth, and that myths reflect the culture in which they are created.
 
Even Empire Strikes Back, which had our heroes LOSING in the end.. and failing, measured this with glimpses of hope and heroes. Like they fought the AT-AT's with a force that could take down a few of the walkers.. the troops could rally behind the tiny victories, and the music allowed the audience to rally too. And listen to the music during this "exciting scene of failure" as the heroes have to flee cloud city
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Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
Even Empire Strikes Back, which had our heroes LOSING in the end.. and failing, measured this with glimpses of hope and heroes. Like they fought the AT-AT's with a force that could take down a few of the walkers.. the troops could rally behind the tiny victories, and the music allowed the audience to rally too. And listen to the music during this "exciting scene of failure" as the heroes have to flee cloud city
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And a lot of fans didn't like TESB that much back when it came out. Very much the same sort of opinions, though not the same organized mass as the Internet allows today, as we see today. The film is full of failures just like TLJ. It is a classic and become the best loved of the OT films because we take it in context as the middle of the story. TLJ is constructed in the same "middle chapter" way and ends without any of our main characters encased in carbonite in the in the clutches of a gangster. Those upset with how TLJ handled things really need to step back and look at the fan reaction to TESB back in 1980. The reactions are almost identical. The difference is TESB is now a classic and TLJ is new.
 
Yes the reactions were mixed at first. But it became quickly embraced.. not quickly at the speed of the internet but quickly. But I think just because we know that doesn't make TLJ a good movie, and it seems to me that a lot of those people who hate TLJ will likely not come around to it. People did not expect a cliffhanger for ESB as they were not done at the time, but they rewatched the film they realized that the characters were just ever so slightly deeper than the first film but they were essentially the same.. and they embraced the film knowing that they were the same and that one more chapter in the fight was left to be seen. But TLJ just trampled on the character, didn't provide sufficient worldbuilding, and was as cynical as movies like Departed (minus the language) than SW. I don't know.. I think I see a gap between the dissatisfaction with ESB and the dissatisfaction with TLJ, they are not the same
 
and why oh why does the new Star Wars object to having a good shootout with STormtroopers or soldiers in corridors? I mean even the crappy police in Canto Bite could have fired some lasers and brought a hint of excitement to that awful section of the film at least
 
Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
Yes the reactions were mixed at first. But it became quickly embraced.. not quickly at the speed of the internet but quickly.
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It was widely embraced after the release of Return of the Jedi. Today, fans barely have enough patience for their opinions to form on the car ride home from the theater.

But I think just because we know that doesn't make TLJ a good movie, and it seems to me that a lot of those people who hate TLJ will likely not come around to it.
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No one said they had to! I honestly don't care what anyone thinks about any movie. The only opinion that matters to me is mine. I truly dislike Attack of the Clones. I think while there are a few plot points that are fun and it has a few big points in the saga, its a narrative mess. I really don't like Rogue One. I think while it has great war scenes, I had nothing to connect with as an audience member. There are those who love these movies. I don't. But I don't spend that much time maligning either movie OR the people who do. Why? Because (1) it is just a movie and (2) I moved on.

But TLJ just trampled on the character, didn't provide sufficient worldbuilding, and was as cynical as movies like Departed (minus the language) than SW.
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That's your opinion.
You're entitled to it.
I disagree with it.
We'll never agree on this.

I don't know.. I think I see a gap between the dissatisfaction with ESB and the dissatisfaction with TLJ, they are not the same
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To be fair, you are looking at the dissatisfaction with ESB through extreme hindsight. It has been almost forty years since the release of ESB. Now, it is viewed by some as a masterpiece. But, if you look at the immediate reaction, you'll see there was disappointment in ESB. It wasn't what people expected. That's okay. What's different now is that we look at it as a part of a whole story. We don't have that with TLJ. Will it be revered as much as ESB someday? I doubt it. There is so much nostalgic factor in regards to all three of those original movies, we can't see that at the end of the day, as much as we love them, they are popcorn movies. While they are visually stunning and have become a part of the cultural lexicon, they're not particularly groundbreaking in their plotting. Ultimately now because of our connection to the OT, nothing can live up to those films. I bet TLJ will, in some circles, be reconsidered following the release of The Rise of Skywalker. Not everyone. Because some people like to be set in their ways. But some circles.
 
I remember when Disney touted that they would release a new SW film once a year indefinitely. I guess.. what.. something happened? And Iger himself said that they'd be slowing down the films. Oh and RJ still thinks he is making his trilogy and can't get the hint that it's not happening. These are realities of the effect of TLJ
 
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