Disco Writer used the N word in the writers room.

[DaveyNY]

I don't think he is to be blamed but as the guy in charge he still might have to go so CBS can show it takes this issue seriously. By the book following of corporate policy just isn't going to cut it if this story gets bigger which I think it will. On one hand they can't be cool with people using the n-word but they can't dismiss his feelings either. Firing Kurtzman for not controlling behind the scenes disfunction allows them to sort of be on both sides of argument. Of course like Locutis said we don't know for sure. We might all be eating crow in the end. Jason

There's one glaring problem with that line of thought...
Kurtzman didn't find out about the problem till WELL AFTER it had occurred.
Neither of the individuals involved went to him or Ms. Paradise with their complaint.
And HR didn't let them know till after the phone call.

IF I were Kurtzman at this point, I'd have a long, open, sit-down group discussion with all my Writers to clear the air and let everybody get their hangups off their chests.
Otherwise there's always going to be animosity and distrust hanging in the air and nobody is going to put their full effort into the job.

 

[Jayson1]

Before we get too high and mighty ourselves, the courts have ruled that (1) African Americans do not have a pass when saying the n-word at work and (2) one instance may be enough to create a hostile work environment.

If he had made a edgy joke or even used it in a even more casual way that might have helped soften the impact of the story. He used it while talking about horrific real life racism. That is the thing that is really hurt CBS. Like I said before. This story is I think going to be about a black man being fired for talking about racism. Do other companies have this policy. We they use the cover of wokeness to fire other black people they want to fire. Jason

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Temporarily closing pending mod review.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Don't be a prick.

Infraction for flaming. Comments to PM.

A world where social justice warriors aren't destroying the fabric of society with their misguided virtue signalling. A world where people of color are free to discuss being racially profiled without being reported to HR by a sneaky little turd who wants to tell a black man what he's FREE to talk about regarding his experiences with racism. People have their heads so far up their asses nowadays they can't see that people of color are being oppressed by the very people who claim to champion them.

People of color are still being oppressed by white liberals and I have no qualms looking at a situation like the Moseley one and recognising it for what it more than likely is. If anyone in this thread actually believes another person of color reported Mosley to HR then they must be extremely blinkered about the world we live in at this moment in time.

Of course there isn't. It's not like people of color have been putting up with this bullshit forever. But if it makes you feel better to pretend white liberals see people of color as equals despite mountains of evidence to the contrary then that's your prerogative.

So we're all supposed to sit here and pretend that 9 times out of ten when someone is wildly hurling the "virtue signalling" and "SJW" labels they're not in fact doing it as part of a concerted effort to complain about people of color, women and LGBTQ individuals being over-represented in TV & Film and they've been secretly fighting the good fight for equality this whole time, playing the reaaaaaaaally long game and going DEEP DEEP COVER to undermine the true champions of injustice and oppression, the Hollywood librul? Astonishing. Sokath, his eyes open.

Yeah, nice try. You found one wedge issue where there was a possible angle (because we still don't know for sure) for you to try and bring up the usual shtick about SJWs and virtue signalling but in a way where it could look like you all were being the good guys defending minority people from oppression for once instead of the person throwing a tantrum over a black woman playing the lead in a show.

You disregarded previous mod instructions to drop this completely baseless (as of this time) line of speculation which is only meant to stoke a fight, and as a result, you have been reply banned from the thread. Comments to PM.\

After conversing with Terok Nor via PM, I have decided to reverse the reply ban so long as future replies stay on topic. ​

Seriously...can you medicate or something?

It wasn't quite as overt as his insult, but this could be seen as prodding him. Don't do this again.

This thread is remaining closed until more information comes out or people have some time to calm down and discuss things reasonably without leaping to baseless conclusions. Anyone can PM me if you have something constructive with a basis in facts that you want to add to the thread and we can talk about possibly reopening it.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

After conferring with my co-mods, I'm reopening this thread with the hope that things will get back to discussing the original subject without the political sniping. Keep in mind that the author of the article below, and the site it comes from, would be those who most frequently get the SJW/virtue signaler label dismissively thrown at them, so let's try and take a more nuanced approach here and realize things are not as simple as some of our kneejerk responses would make them seem.

Here's a good opinion piece on the matter from The Mary Sue (thanks to Serveaux for sharing it) to refresh the discussion:


Walter Mosley Exited Star Trek: Discovery Due to His Use of The N-Word
by Princess Weekes | 11:30 am, September 9th, 2019

Friday, notable American novelist Walter Mosely penned an op-ed for The New York Times explaining that he left a show because of a complaint made about him using the n-word. While he initially left the show nameless, it later came out that the show in question was CBS’s Star Trek: Discovery.

In the piece, Mosley explained the context in which he said the word, that he was recounting a story about racial violence in Los Angeles. “I have to stop with the forward thrust of this story to say that I had indeed said the word in the room. I hadn’t called anyone it. I just told a story about a cop who explained to me, on the streets of Los Angeles, that he stopped all n*ggers in paddy neighborhoods and all paddies in n*gger neighborhoods, because they were usually up to no good. I was telling a true story as I remembered it.”

After telling that story, someone in the room was uncomfortable with that use of the word, and Mosley was reportedly told, “[M]y use of the word made them uncomfortable, and the H.R. representative called to inform me that such language was unacceptable to my employers. I couldn’t use that word in common parlance, even to express an experience I lived through.”

This might go without saying, but Mosely himself is an African-American and Jewish man. He even says that his response to hearing about the issue from HR was “I am the N-word in the writers’ room.” In The Hollywood Reporter piece about the issue, it mentions that the Discovery writers’ room is very diverse, with “three African American scribes, two Asian American writers, a Native American and Latinx woman, among others,” so there’s no telling who exactly made the complaint.

“My answer to HR was to resign and move on. I was in a writers’ room trying to be creative while at the same time being surveilled by unknown critics who would snitch on me to a disembodied voice over the phone,” Mosley said. “My every word would be scrutinized. Sooner or later I’d be fired or worse — silenced.”

Now, as someone who has spent most of their adult life being a token or existing in predominantly white spaces, I can say that I’ve had to swallow my tongue and deal when I would hear the n-word thrown around by white peers many times, because I was so afraid of being labeled as an “angry Black woman”—especially because I would see these white peers being told by their “Black friends” that it was okay for them to say that. So, I find it very … let’s just say “interesting” that, if this was the context in which the word was said, someone complained about it.

Feelings within the Black community about saying the word, especially about saying the word in “mixed company,” are not monolithic, but at the same time, I would not take the step of going up to HR to police another Black person’s language in regards to that word. I would talk to them face or face if I felt it was just not a healthy precedent to set or to at least make it known that I didn’t like it. Going to HR, especially if most of the people working in that department are non-Black, would make me more uncomfortable than the word being said in mixed company.

If the person who made the complaint is a non-African-American/Black person, then honestly I feel like it’s inexcusable. Policing of that word should not be up to people from outside of that community, and if you are hiring Walter Mosley, someone who has used the word in his own work and is open about the racial violence that formed his life, that shouldn’t come as a surprise. Star Trek: Discovery is a show with an African-American lead who grows up in a white household, as an outsider, who is told that she isn’t good enough because she’s not a Vulcan. I just find it very suspect and uncomfortable to police a Black man’s language in such a way, especially when he didn’t call anyone the word itself.

THR brings up that Paramount TV president Amy Powell and Netflix PR chief Jonathan Friedland have been dismissed over the use of the term in the workplace. But those are both white people, and they shouldn’t be using the word anyway.

CBS TV Studios responded to Mosley’s op-ed on Friday in a statement to The Hollywood Reporter:

“We have the greatest admiration for Mr. Mosley’s writing talents and were excited to have him join Star Trek: Discovery. While we cannot comment on the specifics of confidential employee matters, we are committed to supporting a workplace where employees feel free to express concerns and where they feel comfortable performing their best work. We wish Mr. Mosley much continued success.”​

They are especially committed to it since previous showrunners Aaron Harberts and Gretchen Berg were fired ahead of season two, in June 2018, because they allegedly made the workplace a living hell. While I disagree with Mosley that this is some kind of “McCarthyism,” and he admits that he left of his own accord, I think that attempting to police a Black person’s use of the N-word for the sake of (I’m assuming) non-Black people is not helpful.

https://www.themarysue.com/walter-mosley-exited-star-trek-discovery-n-word/

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Now, as someone who has spent most of their adult life being a token or existing in predominantly white spaces, I can say that I’ve had to swallow my tongue and deal when I would hear the n-word thrown around by white peers many times, because I was so afraid of being labeled as an “angry Black woman”—especially because I would see these white peers being told by their “Black friends” that it was okay for them to say that. So, I find it very … let’s just say “interesting” that, if this was the context in which the word was said, someone complained about it.

As a person of color myself--even as one who often passes--I've been in the middle of these situations in which people have let loose with ethnic slurs of all types. After a while, I realized that there is no good reason to make them familiar, whether said by someone of color or not. As the court case I cited above states, even "friendly" uses of the n-word by an African American to another can, in fact, create a hostile work environment.

What I don't think that people appreciate is that the encroachment of an ethnic slur in the workplace does not simply affect the target of that slur. It makes all of us who belong to a minority uncomfortable. If I hear someone use a derogatory word about someone who is Chinese, I, as a person of color, must wonder if that person harbors animosities toward all minorities.

To that end, I find it striking that Mosley felt comfortable using an anti-Irish slur.

 

[Garak]

Good for Mosley for having the stones to walk away from that hot mess

Definitely an embarrassing example of the times we are living in

 

[Garak]

This is a story about an old black man who is told by white assholes that he is not allowed to use his word, so fuck them.

So basically the writer's room is TNZ

 

[Locutus of Bored]

So basically the writer's room is TNZ

That is both not an accurate assessment of TNZ in my opinion, and inappropriate to bring up here if you think it is, since you're not supposed to drag TNZ shit onto the regular board.

 

[Garak]

That is both not an accurate assessment of TNZ in my opinion,

and inappropriate to bring up here if you think it is, since you're not supposed to drag TNZ shit onto the regular board.

Well why are you talking about TNZ then, shush you

 

[KennyB]

What I don't think that people appreciate is that the encroachment of an ethnic slur in the workplace does not simply affect the target of that slur. It makes all of us who belong to a minority uncomfortable.

As a typical middle aged white guy..........It makes me uncomfortable too. I definitely agree with your statement that it doesn't only affect the target. It tenses up the entire room needlessly, that's why using them is supposed to be forbidden.

 

[Longinus]

Whilst I certainly don't think such words should be used casually on a workplace, this was a direct quote, in a story about racism, told by the target of said racism. So that is quite many steps removed by just randomly dropping the word in a casual conversation.

Now, It would be interesting to know in which context the story itself was told in. Was it perhaps to illustrate something related to the writing of the show, or just a part of unrelated conversation. That kinda matters too.

 

[Mudd]

People in that room need to be able to express themselves and tell their stories with some sense of, for lack of a better word, safety.

It also ought to be safe for someone to raise a concern or objection to language to the speaker's face. I saw it happen to an executive producer on one occasion. No blood was spilled.

Finally - stipulating that Mosley's account is reasonably accurate - that someone would choose to file a report with HR rather than broach the subject with anyone in the STD production offices does not speak well for the culture of the production and at least some of the people working there. Does anyone trust anyone?*

Oh, and I love Mosley's supposed response to the unfortunate functionary who had to call him: "I am the n-word in the room." If true, I imagine that set the caller back on their heels.

*Not a rhetorical question where more than a few production offices have been concerned. Or other high-pressure, competitive workplaces with careers at stake for that matter.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

It also ought to be safe for someone to raise a concern or objection to language to the speaker's face. I saw it happen to an executive producer on one occasion. No blood was spilled.

Assuming that Mosley's story was germane to the work being done, that the showrunner (or whoever was running the writers' room) would have been responsible for setting the parameters for open and frank discussion, including showing how someone could indicate that they were uncomfortable with the direction of the conversation.

 

[Mudd]

I'm not sure that white guys being made uncomfortable by a black man telling, with some pertinent detail, how he was treated on one occasion by a racist cop is much of a justification for silencing the storyteller.

 

[KennyB]

So your saying a writer of his caliber can’t tell a story without using slurs? He wasn’t silenced either. He quit. He took his ball and went home.

 

[Professor Zoom]

So your saying a writer of his caliber can’t tell a story without using slurs? He wasn’t silenced either. He quit. He took his ball and went home.

Obviously, he COULD tell the story without using the slurs. But, why should he? Why should he have to make his uncomfortable experience in the world more comfortable for others? Wouldn't that lessen the impact of the story?

We seem more worried about which word he used recounting what happened to him rather than what actually happened to him.

The writers room isn't like an office dealing with selling office supplies. The writers room is tasked to create stories that move and compel people to keep watching. That requires writers to dig in deep about their own experiences which inspire stories for the screen. Yep, even things that take place in outer space is some fucking century.

If Mosley was tossing it around, calling people the n-word, or what have you, then, yeah... but, he was recounting what happened to him.

And yeah, he took his ball... which is a big fucking ball of talent... and left. He doesn't have to deal with stupid games. He's a fucking legend.

 

[BK613]

To that end, I find it striking that Mosley felt comfortable using an anti-Irish slur.

I found that use interesting too, especially given LA isn't exactly known for being Irish. To the point of:
https://www.laweekly.com/why-do-the-irish-have-virtually-no-presence-in-los-angeles/

A bit of googling today came up with some hits that suggests that 'paddy' may be a lesser known pejorative for 'white' in Black Vernacular English. People should find those links with a similar search.

 

[Doctor Bombay]

Has it been established anywhere the ethnicity of the person who complained to HR? It could have been another black person.

 

[Noname Given]

For people wondering why whomever it was might have gone to HR, instead of confronting the issue personally with Mr. Mosley; from the Hollywood Reporter article:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/l...k-discovery-using-n-word-writers-room-1237489

Star Trek: Discovery showrunners Aaron Harberts and Gretchen Berg were fired ahead of season two in June 2018. At the time, sources told THR that the duo — who replaced original showrunner Bryan Fuller — had leadership and operational issues that led to their dismissal. Insiders stressed that Berg and Harberts became increasingly abusive to the Discovery writing staff, with Harberts said to have leaned across the writers room table while shouting an expletive at a member of the show's staff. Multiple writers are said to have been uncomfortable working on the series and had threatened to file a complaint with HR or quit the series altogether before informing franchise captain and season two co-showrunner Kurtzman of the issues surrounding Berg and Harberts. After hearing rumors of HR complaints, Harberts is said to have made imposing remarks to the staff to keep concerns with the production an internal matter. Harberts and Berg declined comment at the time.

^^^
So, maybe they just didn't the chance of some sort of repeat situation - thus they went to HR. Does that make te ST: D Writer's Room environment 'good'? Probably not, but hell, the TNG Writer's Room was a mess and a revolving door for the first 3 seasons. I guess some creative writers are more sensitive than others.