I love the version you picked and the tweaks you've done with it. It looks great.
Donny's TOS Enterprise Interiors
- Thread starter Donny
- Start date
@Donny, I love that you're doing all these version for us! Thank you!
The ones I personally think look the most like the Original Series aesthetic are D and F, I guess because I feel they are the simplest/most minimalistic ways of doing the roll bar.
Ignoring the roll bar for a second, I'd be curious to see how the ship looks like with a regular Constitution-class saucer without the added structure to the top of it.
The ones I personally think look the most like the Original Series aesthetic are D and F, I guess because I feel they are the simplest/most minimalistic ways of doing the roll bar.
Ignoring the roll bar for a second, I'd be curious to see how the ship looks like with a regular Constitution-class saucer without the added structure to the top of it.
I think all of them look good, but I can't help feeling that what they would've actually done is have the roll bar and struts be two separate pieces. The roll bar struts ending further in, with the warp struts just jutting from the bottom of the hull at an outward angle evoking the Enterprise. The Miranda is definitely an 80's design. That's my two cents. I'm sure whatever you end up with will be fantastic as usual.
I assume Mike Minor was evoking a car spoiler on the Reliant design. Not sure when the first spoilers appear, but this is the first one I recall, from 1970. Definitely in that TOS design window, particularly if the Reliant had appeared in TAS.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plymouth_Superbird
I've also seen medium-to-large-sized boats at marinas for years with Reliant-like rollbars on them that served as mounts for radar and GPS systems.
Chris Craft is particularly fond of them.
Chris Craft is particularly fond of them.
The Superbird was the first car to be designed using a wind tunnel iirc, so in this case I suspect it was the first to have one. Or at least the first car anyone knew about. In many cases, these things became decorative add ons later, without aerodynamic purpose. But on the Superbird, it actually functioned to hold the back end down.
It was a collaboration between Minor, Jennings, and Cole. And yes, it probably had more canon variations than any other starship, what with the Soyuz class and the variations on the roll-bar. From Memory Alpha: "There were five different known hull configurations utilized with the Miranda-class during its time in service."
The team accomplished the goal of having it look like it belonged to the same fleet as Enterprise, but different enough to be able to quickly tell between the two ships on-screen. It also set the precedent that all Starfleet ships of the line all shared the saucer/nacelle combo going forward in the series.
Note: Reading up about the design of the ship, the roll bar was more of an afterthought, added only after Bennet signed off on the ship upside down accidentally. Since they now had to flip their original design, the roll bar was added to help balance it out.
Last edited:
If you count all the different Frankenfleet ships from DS9, as well as other slightly less-canon ships (but still built for the shows), there were actually a lot more than 5 Miranda variants (7 on-screen, 9 total):
- Original Design (USS Reliant - TWOK)
- USS Lantree (TNG - "Unnatural Selection" - base configuration w/ no rollbar)
- USS Bozeman (TNG - "Cause and Effect")
- Sisko's USS Saratoga (DS9 - "The Emissary Part 1" - not the one from TVH, which was another base-configuration)
- USS Tian An Men (DS9 - "Sacrifice of Angels" - note the extra impulse engines at the rear of the weapons pod)
- USS Trial (DS9 - "The Way of the Warrior" - rollbar reversed)
- USS Antares (DS9 - "Favor the Bold" - AMT Excelsior kit stand used for an AWACS module, plus some other Excelsior greebles)
- Unknown 4-engine variant painted gold at Christie's Auction, ostensibly someone's desk model - probably not considered fully canon, but still made by the show's prop staff for Deep Space Nine
- And then there was this oddity based off a Miranda main hull, the Merced-class USS Trieste, built by Dan Curry, allegedly to be used in the Tachyon Net Blockade Fleet from TNG's "Redemption, Part 2" - Also considered an apocryphal design, as it never made it on-screen (thank God!)
I always believed that the Miranda came from the Enterprise Refit as the "New Heavy Cruiser" (to borrow a term from SFB) to replace the constitutions of yesteryear. They did their job so well they hung on after the Constellation and Excelsior's development, getting downgraded to frigates as everything became better.
And yeah, we all know the reason for the Miranda's ubiquitous reputation is because they hauled out the Reliant for minor changes whenever they needed a budget-friendly Federation ship to put into peril. It was more cost-effective than creating actual design contemporaries to the Galaxy, which we only saw after their destruction in BoBW. Wonder what Trek history would have been like if they actually built out those study models to be actual ships.
You know, I've thought about this as well. The MIranda is always considered a lesser class than the Constitution, but after studying some fan-made deck plans of the Miranda, it's apparent that the Miranda has close to just as much (if not more?) interior space as a Constitution. That combined primary hull/secondary hull really maximizes space much more efficiently. Also, other than an apparent deflector, the Miranda has everything a Constitution has and more. It's got an additional (aft) torpedo launcher, an additional hangar bay, and the two "pulse phasers" on the ends of the roll bar. Which is the better class?
Last edited:
Does it have 14 science labs? The space for that extra hangar has to come from somewhere. One possibility is that the Miranda class was a response to V'ger (assuming of course that it didn't exist beforehand). A high speed threat came screaming in and caught SF flatfooted and Miranda was the answer. A simpler design to build providing an intercept capability. By the time of the whale probe, SF had vessels in place to intercept such a threat and even though they were ineffectual, they were there.
@Donny edit to add: I forgot to mention that I really like the revised version.
Last edited:
If I remember right, one of the 3D modelers built both to scale with each other and the Miranda actually has MORE internal volume than the Refit Constitution. It's not a LOT more, but yes, it is in fact more.
Yeah, I always thought along the same lines, the Miranda is more compact, but not really less well equipped, at least from a tactical perspective (which I always found a bit at odds with the Reliant's mission at the start of TWoK), just visibly you can see it's clearly better armed than the Constitution.
Ironically I always though the fan-made "Avenger-Class" name fits in better due to the amount of weaponry it has. IMO "Miranda" is just the base class, while the sub-class with the rollbar is indeed called Avenger-type or something like that.
Regarding which came first and all that, IMO the registry numbers makes it clear that, if Reliant is a first batch Miranda, then the Constitution came first. If NCC-17XX corresponds roughly with ships launched in the 2240's, my head canon is that the Miranda was built around the 2250' or 60's.
It's also my headcanon that TOS ships regularly went into the 2XXX and 3XXX numbers for ships built around the 60's (as you did here with the Ptolemy); with the Excelsior having such a low registry number 20 years later due to the fact that it was a prototype that had been in development for decades.
Ironically I always though the fan-made "Avenger-Class" name fits in better due to the amount of weaponry it has. IMO "Miranda" is just the base class, while the sub-class with the rollbar is indeed called Avenger-type or something like that.
Regarding which came first and all that, IMO the registry numbers makes it clear that, if Reliant is a first batch Miranda, then the Constitution came first. If NCC-17XX corresponds roughly with ships launched in the 2240's, my head canon is that the Miranda was built around the 2250' or 60's.
It's also my headcanon that TOS ships regularly went into the 2XXX and 3XXX numbers for ships built around the 60's (as you did here with the Ptolemy); with the Excelsior having such a low registry number 20 years later due to the fact that it was a prototype that had been in development for decades.
That's a good idea, but I meant to say earlier I've actually gone back and reduced the number of my Ptolemy class from NCC-38xx to a base NCC-8xx, for the very reason that it seemed rather high given the Connie's NCC-17xx and the Excelsior's NX-2000. But then again, the Constellation as a NCC-10xx number, so who knows how all that really works.
That's an interesting idea!
And was that tall to allow the trunk lid to open fully!
As I see it... The Constitution carried the Federation through the end of it's pioneering days. It's a well-regarded, best-balanced class that holds the reputation of being the most famous starship class in Starfleet. It's so well regarded the Federation refitted it something like three times, keeping the legendary class valid between the 2250s and into the 2290s when challengers to it's greatness - the Excelsior and Constellation- begin appearing.
In the 2270s some budgetary committee wondered what they could do to mass produce that greatness out of the third refit. They took all the new and wonderful things out of the 2270s refit and produced the economic Miranda class. But greatness isn't just parts and material... it's the history and experience that goes with it. Perhaps predictably, the Miranda gained the reputation of being a mass-production cruiser designed to fit the needs of a Federation that was solidifying its internal policies and gearing up to fight the Klingons. As the years wore on that's all that it ever was: A stock production cruiser, built on the backs of the Constitution's final refit (and reputation) but never surpassing them. And that's why they were never seen as great ships- becoming expendable in the sleek 2360s.
The battle at Mutara certainly didn't help the reputation of the class, either. They would always lose to the Constitutions- even if the Constitution was increasingly outdated and representing a time that no longer existed. Though the Miranda lived on, it would never gain the esteem the Constitution did.
So in short... the Enterprise-class is a class with legendary reputation and decent capability... but it's reaching the end of it's golden years with newer chassis being more capable. The Miranda is (by 2280) a fresh new cruiser with lots of potential ahead of it... but it's an economic model, designed to be more utilitarian than elegant. The former represents the golden pioneering days of the Federation blazing the way across the stars, charting new territory. The latter represents the militant, economic-budget necessities of a Federation gearing up against its next major adversary and stabilizing their internal needs.
Both of them marvelously intersect across the best era of trek history, IMO. It's criminal we don't have more media installments in this dynamic period. I love both classes, and wish we could see them more often on the screen in ways other than second-fiddle to the Main Character Ships.
Anyone ever modeled the original right-side up Reliant? Lots of copies of the schematics floating around, but I've never seen anyone attempt a 3D model of it.
The only one I can recall is Robert Wilde, but it has the rollbar rather than the two torpedo pods in the drawing.
Last edited:
Tobias Richter did the same thing.
To add to @137th Gebirg's list, there's also the cargo variant USS Bradford, designed by Adam Buckner for DS9 but never seen on screen.
Also, I'm not entirely sure the USS Trial is another version. The rollbar seems inverted in the episode, but it's very dimly lit, and the actual model had the rollbar placed correctly when it was photographed.
Interestingly, it was the 4 nacelle variant (which I never knew existed before today!) which had the rollbar inverted. Maybe they realized the mistake on the original Trial model and just built another kit to replace it, while the "retired" model was modified and kept as decoration or something.
To add to @137th Gebirg's list, there's also the cargo variant USS Bradford, designed by Adam Buckner for DS9 but never seen on screen.
Also, I'm not entirely sure the USS Trial is another version. The rollbar seems inverted in the episode, but it's very dimly lit, and the actual model had the rollbar placed correctly when it was photographed.
Interestingly, it was the 4 nacelle variant (which I never knew existed before today!) which had the rollbar inverted. Maybe they realized the mistake on the original Trial model and just built another kit to replace it, while the "retired" model was modified and kept as decoration or something.
Last edited:
Which is the better class, you ask?
I know it’s heresy, but I’ve always preferred the Miranda (and therefore the Reliant) to the Enterprise refit. The refit E is inarguably gorgeous, and fifteen-year-old me definitely got openly weepy in that December 1979 theater when Scotty finally did a U-turn and showed us our girl in all her upgraded glory... but the original NCC-1701 was and always will be my first and true love. (Probably explains why I’ve been obsessed with the damn thing for almost fifty years now.)
So when I saw NCC-1864 glide across the screen 2-1/2 years later while Chekhov was doing his first officer’s log, for me it was kind of like seeing the hot cheerleader from high school years later at the class reunion. You know, the one that you wrote off because she was dating the quarterback and so far out of your league. But now you’re the successful computer scientist, and the quarterback is bagging groceries at the Piggly Wiggly. And here she comes, all grown up, with legs for a mile and a badass new attitude.
So, yeah. For me, fu*k-marry-kill is the Miranda, the circa-2267 Enterprise, and the refit Enterprise.
(Not that you asked.)
I know it’s heresy, but I’ve always preferred the Miranda (and therefore the Reliant) to the Enterprise refit. The refit E is inarguably gorgeous, and fifteen-year-old me definitely got openly weepy in that December 1979 theater when Scotty finally did a U-turn and showed us our girl in all her upgraded glory... but the original NCC-1701 was and always will be my first and true love. (Probably explains why I’ve been obsessed with the damn thing for almost fifty years now.)
So when I saw NCC-1864 glide across the screen 2-1/2 years later while Chekhov was doing his first officer’s log, for me it was kind of like seeing the hot cheerleader from high school years later at the class reunion. You know, the one that you wrote off because she was dating the quarterback and so far out of your league. But now you’re the successful computer scientist, and the quarterback is bagging groceries at the Piggly Wiggly. And here she comes, all grown up, with legs for a mile and a badass new attitude.
So, yeah. For me, fu*k-marry-kill is the Miranda, the circa-2267 Enterprise, and the refit Enterprise.
(Not that you asked.)
