The positive Voyager thread: What was good with the series?

[Nightdiamond]

Ah, famous for "Do you wish to copulate with me, ensign?" I believe

And Harry Kim getting all panicky and saying: "No NO NOOOO!!!!".

The AFI should add this scene to one of its lists. Harry did the right thing, but it's still going to go down as the biggest fail in TV history.

Funny too, after that there's no more mention of Harry hitting on Seven. Nada. Nothing.


Another interesting A.I episode was that robotic war thing. Same scenario, except these robots may not have been as self aware. They just turned on their creators because of warped logic.

Another underrated episode.

 

[Prax]

if Kim had said yes, it was never gonna be a tidy operation. He's Ensign Kim, and Ensign Kim must suffer.
I think they were in the mess hall, so Janeway would have come in for her midnight coffee and walked in on them.

 

[Makarov]

Let's face it, the EMH, Moriarty, and sentient, self aware holograms are bad news. The EMH almost gets B'elanna killed by the germophobic, serial killer hologram(because he wants to help a fellow "photonic"), he almost gets the crew killed by his carelessness with the "macrovirus," he almost gets the crew, ship, and a whole civilization killed because he wants to help a fellow "AI" weapon of mass destruction, he slanders(or is it "libels"? Since holonovels are considered "writing") his whole crew across the entire Federation with his "Photons Be Free" nonsense. He almost gets B'elanna, and/or the crew killed again because he wants to help "fellow photonics" in a war with the Hirogen. Then he almost leaves the crew stranded to die in space because in his faulty logic, "Voyager can survive without a Warp core, but not with its captain." Huh? Most of these cases have the doctor straight up being insubordinate, or in some cases, committing mutiny. The guy is out of control, as is every other self aware hologram we meet.

Moriarty was incredible actually. The guy was programmed to be a villain and after becoming self aware all he wants to do is see the world. That reflects pretty well on holograms if even the bad guys turn out OK

Then you have Da Vinci who was pretty much a great friend to Janeway, never really hurt anybody, and became aware of his own limitations.

 

[jmidnight_99]

The AFI should add this scene to one of its lists. Harry did the right thing, but it's still going to go down as the biggest fail in TV history.

Funny too, after that there's no more mention of Harry hitting on Seven. Nada. Nothing.

Would you hit on Seven? She'd scare the crap out of me, I'll tell you that. I need to be woooed, not nanoprobed.

 

[Prax]

Moriarty was incredible actually. The guy was programmed to be a villain and after becoming self aware all he wants to do is see the world. That reflects pretty well on holograms if even the bad guys turn out OK

Then you have Da Vinci who was pretty much a great friend to Janeway, never really hurt anybody, and became aware of his own limitations.

I don't think Da Vinci was self aware. He was brought into the real world and still saw it as the holonovel. And Moriarty did take over the ship both times to get what he wanted(keeping live hostages too), even if he was polite.

 

[Damian]

I don't think Da Vinci was self aware. He was brought into the real world and still saw it as the holonovel. And Moriarty did take over the ship both times to get what he wanted(keeping live hostages too), even if he was polite.

Yeah, agree. Moriarty passed the self aware test in "Elementary, Dear Data". He even quoted the famous Descartes "I think, therefore I am". But Da Vinci, no. He went where no holoprogram went before , but he never thought he was more than his programming, unlike Moriarty. Da Vinci didn't 'cross over'.

Moriarty was a complicated figure. I was glad they followed up his intro with "Ship in a Bottle". Not quite a villain, not quite a good guy. Just trying to survive I guess.

 

[Nightdiamond]

I don't usually rewatch that episode. Not because of the story, but the actor they picked to play the deranged hologram just kind of weirds me out.

He's played those same types of characters before. He's a good character actor. He definitely got the look and voice down for a neurotic character.

I don't really get creeped out by scenes in star trek, but the scene where he reached into Belanna's body and tried to crush her heart is one of them.

 

[Nightdiamond]

if Kim had said yes, it was never gonna be a tidy operation. He's Ensign Kim, and Ensign Kim must suffer.
I think they were in the mess hall, so Janeway would have come in for her midnight coffee and walked in on them.

True, he would have had to answer to Janeway anyway later on.

But, still Harry was planning something sort of nasty, because all of this was happening at midnight. He asked her if she wanted to work around that time and then suggested a romantic trip to the holodeck.

By the way, Garrett Wang didn't like it either.

Would you hit on Seven? She'd scare the crap out of me, I'll tell you that. I need to be woooed, not nanoprobed.

I remember there was one scene in some other episode where she simply walks down a corridor. In that outfit. With those curves. That's it. Just walking.

Who cares?

 

[Discofan]

...Harry did the right thing,....

How is that the right thing? It was what he wanted to do and what Seven was willing to do (for her personal education). So how is not doing something that two adult people want to do... in any way the right thing???

I'd really like to hear the logic behind that.

 

[Discofan]

Thanks. Did you check out the site I recommended?

Good one!

 

[Nightdiamond]

How is that the right thing? It was what he wanted to do and what Seven was willing to do (for her personal education). So how is not doing something that two adult people want to do... in any way the right thing???

I'd really like to hear the logic behind that.

This isn't a ship full of game of thrones characters, so for the sake of his own sanity and reputation, he did the right thing. Janeway was acting as Seven's protector/mentor, and the moment she got wind of it, she would have came down hard on him.

Technically, they're both adults and it's none of her business, but that's not going to make one bit of difference with Janeway. She was not going to see it that way.

So here's the following sequence of events;

- If Harry and Seven did it, Harry's going to worry that Seven is going to blurt it out to everyone
- So Harry might tell her "hey, this is private, not everyone has to know, OK?"
- It makes sense, but he'll probably feel like a creepy molester for telling her that though
- Seven, not knowing any better, would probably blurt it out at the slightest on the bridge, in front of everyone; "I have to go now, I have an appointment to go copulate with ensign Harry Kim"
- Once Janeway finds out, she'll chew the hell out of Harry and then guilt trip him for the rest of show.
- And then Harry will never get his promotion.

So Harry has to weigh an instant, wild, no strings attached sexual experience with a consenting Seven against his reputation as a gentleman being in question.

Then again who cares ?

 

[Discofan]

This isn't a ship full of game of thrones characters, so for the sake of his own sanity and reputation, he did the right thing. Janeway was acting as Seven's protector/mentor, and the moment she got wind of it, she would have came down hard on him.

Technically, they're both adults and it's none of her business, but that's not going to make one bit of difference with Janeway. She was not going to see it that way.

So here's the following sequence of events;

- If Harry and Seven did it, Harry's going to worry that Seven is going to blurt it out to everyone
- So Harry might tell her "hey, this is private, not everyone has to know, OK?"
- It makes sense, but he'll probably feel like a creepy molester for telling her that though
- Seven, not knowing any better, would probably blurt it out at the slightest on the bridge, in front of everyone; "I have to go now, I have an appointment to go copulate with ensign Harry Kim"
- Once Janeway finds out, she'll chew the hell out of Harry and then guilt trip him for the rest of show.
- And then Harry will never get his promotion.

So Harry has to weigh an instant, wild, no strings attached sexual experience with a consenting Seven against his reputation as a gentleman being in question.

Then again who cares ?

I still don't get it. When he slept with that alien woman he didn't care about any of this and the difference is that for the alien, Janeway could actually use regulations to punish him and she's such a shrew that she didn't even care that he was in love (or so he said, I didn't find that very convincing). Here she wouldn't have a leg to stand on, except that she's a tyrannical sexually repressed bitch, but that's what she is all the time anyway. My point is that it was much less risky to sleep with Seven than with the alien.

 

[jaime]

I still don't get it. When he slept with that alien woman he didn't care about any of this and the difference is that for the alien, Janeway could actually use regulations to punish him and she's such a shrew that she didn't even care that he was in love (or so he said, I didn't find that very convincing). Here she wouldn't have a leg to stand on, except that she's a tyrannical sexually repressed bitch, but that's what she is all the time anyway. My point is that it was much less risky to sleep with Seven than with the alien.

Harry didn’t do it because although Seven is an adult woman, with all the knowledge, she lacks context. In a sense she’s *not an adult*. Also, Harry sensibly associates sex with an emotional connection first, for him. He knows they don’t have that.

Now...if it had been Riker, or maybe Neelix...

 

[Discofan]

Harry didn’t do it because although Seven is an adult woman, with all the knowledge, she lacks context. In a sense she’s *not an adult*. Also, Harry sensibly associates sex with an emotional connection first, for him. He knows they don’t have that.

Now...if it had been Riker, or maybe Neelix...

Seven was the one who asked and I strongly believe that the refusal did more harm than anything else he could have done, even a bad first sexual experience is better than rejection. She was perfectly right to interpret his moves as sexual advances. She couldn't have anticipated that he was such an awkward idiot. Harry wasn't sensible here, he was a damaging fool. Instead of helping Seven to grow up, and grow out of her isolation and become more social. he confused her and likely caused her to regress in that area.

 

[jaime]

Seven was the one who asked and I strongly believe that the refusal did more harm than anything else he could have done, even a bad first sexual experience is better than rejection. She was perfectly right to interpret his moves as sexual advances. She couldn't have anticipated that he was such an awkward idiot. Harry wasn't sensible here, he was a damaging fool. Instead of helping Seven to grow up, and grow out of her isolation and become more social. he confused her and likely caused her to regress in that area.

In human terms it was a forty year old refusing the advances of an eighteen year old.

 

[Discofan]

In human terms it was a forty year old refusing the advances of an eighteen year old.

It was a stumbling fool damaging the sexual growth of a woman he had sent mixed signals to.

 

[jmidnight_99]

It was a stumbling fool damaging the sexual growth of a woman he had sent mixed signals to.

Everyone's a fool to you huh?

Did you check out that website yet?

 

[jmidnight_99]

Archer is a bungling fool

She's a tyrannical sexually repressed bitch.

He was an awkward idiot..

He was a damaging fool.

It was a stumbling fool.

None of this seems remotely positive, does it? You and a few others here derail every conversation into the same cesspool of negativity. Hey, It's about time for that Kes idiot to chime in, isn't it? I think you're the reason I got disgusted and left this forum the first time.

Here's one since you seem to like your adjectives: Babbling jackass.

 

[Prax]

Harry was looking to explore a romantic relationship with Seven. He was attracted to her. That doesn't mean he wanted to bang her then and there in the mess hall. He's not an animal

 

[NewHeavensNewEarth]

None of this seems remotely positive, does it? You and a few others here derail every conversation into the same cesspool of negativity. Hey, It's about time for that Kes idiot to chime in, isn't it? I think you're the reason I got disgusted and left this forum the first time.

Here's one since you seem to like your adjectives: Babbling jackass.

You figured out multiquote! Hooray!