This thread is genetically enhanced... Like Julian

[Prax]

I recently watched "Doctor Bashir, I Presume," and was thinking, would any of Bashir's accolades and awards be taken away or called into question? There seems to be such a stigma attached to genetic engineering. He probably has many academic and medical awards. He probably holds some athletic records. Would there be people who would want to go back and dispute them? What about the runner ups in such cases that worked really hard and lost out to Julian for what comes easy to him?

Also, what about any future achievements? Would he be disqualified? Would his achievements be prone to getting ignored by organizations provide recognition for such things?

Thinking about the lengths parents have gone to give their children every possible advantage( sometimes quite underhandedly) in athletics, it seems like the type of genetic engineering Bashir was able to receive and how easily he got away with it, would be a huge problem on Earth.

Thoughts?

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I recently watched "Doctor Bashir, I Presume," and was thinking, would any of Bashir's accolades and awards be taken away or called into question? There seems to be such a stigma attached to genetic engineering. He probably has many academic and medical awards. He probably holds some athletic records. Would there be people who would want to go back and dispute them? What about the runner ups in such cases that worked really hard and lost out to Julian for what comes easy to him?

Also, what about any future achievements? Would he be disqualified? Would his achievements be prone to getting ignored by organizations provide recognition for such things?

Thinking about the lengths parents have gone to give their children every possible advantage( sometimes quite underhandedly) in athletics, it seems like the type of genetic engineering Bashir was able to receive and how easily he got away with it, would be a huge problem on Earth.

Thoughts?

There may be two ways it could go: the Lance Armstrong way, or the Roger Clemens way. I think the latter is more likely: lots of discussion about how the accolades were unearned without cancelling or withdrawing them. He may never win another award, and every promotion would be regarded with suspicion.

Spoiler

Perhaps that is why the writers had Bashir serve under Ezri on the Emmet Till in What We Left Behind: he could not get promoted.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

The major difference with Clemens though is he didn’t start doing steroids until later in his career. Also of course, Bashir did not choose to cheat.

He probably did lose some if his awards.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

The major difference with Clemens though is he didn’t start doing steroids until later in his career. Also of course, Bashir did not choose to cheat.

He probably did lose some if his awards.

I don't think we have any athletes who started juicing in kindergarten, so of course, we need to be selective. However, there are other examples, like Barry Bonds, who still holds a number of #1 records in baseball, many of which could not be accomplished without steroids.

 

[GulBahana]

Siddig didn't find out his character was enhanced until the day he got the script. He was not happy.

 

[Prax]

I was okay with it. The only thing that was annoying was in season 6 when they made Bashir like Data and had him calculating impossible numbers and odds instantly in his mind.

 

[kkt]

I was okay with it. The only thing that was annoying was in season 6 when they made Bashir like Data and had him calculating impossible numbers and odds instantly in his mind.

Yes. That trope was already done with Spock in the original series.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I don't think we have any athletes who started juicing in kindergarten, so of course, we need to be selective. However, there are other examples, like Barry Bonds, who still holds a number of #1 records in baseball, many of which could not be accomplished without steroids.

The debate with those players is, they generally did enough to get in the HoF before they started juicing.

But what makes them different from Julian is cheating was their choice.

My problem with it as a plot twist was it made all his actions for the first five seasons make absolutely no sense.

 

[XCV330]

not really sure how awards work on a multispecies civilization. Trek plays with the net down by GENERALLY having every species about the same in terms of intelligence, but what if your a Kelpian running in the 100 meter dash in the olympics. Does everyone else just work hard for second? What if you're a Kelpian going for points on duolingo.. nevermind.

 

[Tosk]

He can probably kiss that Carrington Award goodbye.

 

[PSGarak]

[QUOTE="JMy problem with it as a plot twist was it made all his actions for the first five seasons make absolutely no sense.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. Even if you say that pretty much every dumb thing he said and did before then was all an act, his "act" cost lives, so it's hard to buy that.

 

[Tosk]

Out of curiosity, when did "his act" cost lives?

 

[at Quark's]

not really sure how awards work on a multispecies civilization. Trek plays with the net down by GENERALLY having every species about the same in terms of intelligence, but what if your a Kelpian running in the 100 meter dash in the olympics. Does everyone else just work hard for second? What if you're a Kelpian going for points on duolingo.. nevermind.

Yes, or if Julian would have been that intelligent, just naturally ? Julian should not be punished for being enhanced, only for hiding the truth (if he did that, my memory is a bit fuzzy on that aspect).

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Hard to guess, maybe they have general strength classes and split up sports like that, just like they split up male and female sports.

The trouble with making exceptions for augments who aren’t at fault is you send the message that augmentation is okay as long as you don’t get caught for long enough.

Julian being an augment might have made sense if it came out first season before we got to know him. In the mid fifth season it made no sense.

 

[Nyotarules]

The Federation Olympics would have Earth in last position every time

 

[PSGarak]

Out of curiosity, when did "his act" cost lives?

I was thinking of the Teplan Blight in the episode The Quickening. It seems odd to me that he would just give up and turn the research over to non-augments if he was truly using his intellect to full capacity. At the same time, it's character breaking to think that he wouldn't use his full intellect to solve the problem. So at least in the context of this episode, it doesn't make much sense either way.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

He never says that he half-assed his work or played dumb. He says he tried not to exploit his abilities. I believe that in context, he's talking about personal advancement, but that he always performed his duties as a physician with complete diligence. Indeed, we can presume from being second in his class and being nominated for the Carrington, not to mention being the possible image for the news EMH, that Bashir WAS NOT doing a good job at covering his tracks.

 

[Tosk]

At the same time, it's character breaking to think that he wouldn't use his full intellect to solve the problem.

At what point in the episode (or subsequently) was it ever implied that he didn't use his full intellect to try to cure the Blight? I'm not really sure how one could watch The Quickening and not be convinced that he was trying everything he could think of. He invented a vaccine in about a month.

It seems odd to me that he would just give up and turn the research over to non-augments if he was truly using his intellect to full capacity.

Only arrogance would stop a smart person from enlisting the help of other smart people. But at the end of the episode, Bashir is still trying to cure the disease...when does he give the research to others to do? The only thing I can think of is when he's giving a lecture on the disease in Inter Arma.

 

[PSGarak]

At what point in the episode (or subsequently) was it ever implied that he didn't use his full intellect to try to cure the Blight? I'm not really sure how one could watch The Quickening and not be convinced that he was trying everything he could think of. He invented a vaccine in about a month.

Only arrogance would stop a smart person from enlisting the help of other smart people. But at the end of the episode, Bashir is still trying to cure the disease...when does he give the research to others to do? The only thing I can think of is when he's giving a lecture on the disease in Inter Arma.

At one point, he claims he knew the virus was changing and chose to ignore it. It's in a conversation he has with Dax.

As for when he gives the research over, I'm going to do a rewatch and get back to you on that second question. I could be misremembering something. I believe that there is ample evidence that Julian is arrogant. That was part of what that entire episode was about.

 

[Prax]

So there's an Enterprise episode where a scrawny Vulcan gets mad at Archer, grabs him by the throat, and pushes him up into the ceiling with ease, and another episode where an "Augment" punches, kicks, and tosses Archer around a room like a ragdoll. I felt like we finally got to see what it means to be "3 times stronger" than a human. Is Bashir that strong and fast? In the baseball episode, they talk about how the Vulcan team is 3 times stronger and faster than them... except for Bashir.

Does Bashir need to hold back when the gang get into hand to hand combat with the enemy? Have there been sticky situations where Bashir could've whooped some bad guy who was threatening people with ease.