A theory for the supersized Abramsverse fleet.

[Timo]

But we saw all of the inside of the aft half with the medevac shuttle, and we saw the rest when Robau flew one of the "standard" ones. Cramming 60 people into a runabout as per "The Homecoming" is fine, can be done, nothing unusual about that bigger-than-schoolbus spacecraft carrying that many. Cramming 40 inside the outer walls of a Robau shuttle, regardless of internal configuration, is physically impossible.

As for more than 20 shuttles, where to put those? We see the bay and its layout, in two shots that cover the forward and teh aft. We see the two-level shelves that can each only accommodate one Robau craft and nothing more. We see no evidence of lifepods launching, and no evidence of lifepods in flight, and there are no dialogue references to such.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

A theory for the supersized NuTrek fleet, the creators are overcompensating for other shortcomings.

 

[F. King Daniel]

But we saw all of the inside of the aft half with the medevac shuttle, and we saw the rest when Robau flew one of the "standard" ones. Cramming 60 people into a runabout as per "The Homecoming" is fine, can be done, nothing unusual about that bigger-than-schoolbus spacecraft carrying that many. Cramming 40 inside the outer walls of a Robau shuttle, regardless of internal configuration, is physically impossible.

There are photos of the set interior floating about somewhere which show it to be surprisingly large, and considering how many people can be squeezed into a Mini Cooper, I'd say it's possible.

As for more than 20 shuttles, where to put those? We see the bay and its layout, in two shots that cover the forward and teh aft. We see the two-level shelves that can each only accommodate one Robau craft and nothing more. We see no evidence of lifepods launching, and no evidence of lifepods in flight, and there are no dialogue references to such.

The concept art for the Kelvin shuttlebay has berths for 24 shuttles, although it may not be representative of the final CG used. Winona Kirk's shuttle was "Medical Shuttle 37" which indicates perhaps more. The Enterprise is shown having a secondary shuttlebay in Into Darkness which is otherwise hidden, so perhaps the Kelvin has additional shuttle escape points also.

 

[pst]

..As regards crew size, "eight hundred" can't be right for the Kelvin.

that "800 lives" line was looped in after the scene was shot. the angle changes so we can't see pike's face when the line is spoken and you can hear a subtle shift in sound indicative of ADR. pike probably originally said something much more realistic until the producers decided realistic isn't particularly dramatic and changed the number to 800.

that's my no fun answer for why there aren't enough shuttles on screen to account for the kelvin's crew.

 

[fireproof78]

that "800 lives" line was looped in after the scene was shot. the angle changes so we can't see pike's face when the line is spoken and you can hear a subtle shift in sound indicative of ADR. pike probably originally said something much more realistic until the producers decided realistic isn't particularly dramatic and changed the number to 800.

that's my no fun answer for why there aren't enough shuttles on screen to account for the kelvin's crew.

Nope, continuity error. Moving along.

 

[Timo]

The fix is just about the easiest thing imaginable, tho. "Eight hundred" and "A hundred" sound basically the same that late into the night, after all.

It's not as if Pike were speaking good English elsewhere in the scene, what with constructing a sentence equating the Federation with a "peacekeeping armada" when his intent probably was to say something positive about Starfleet instead.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[gerbil]

Maybe Pike was also referring to a nearby star base or other starship that would have been caught by the Narada. It’s entirely possible. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Timo]

...Seriously, forks, it would be really interesting to learn what was "nearby".

1) The shuttles were in no hurry to go to warp, for whatever reason. Perhaps there was safety within impulse range? Or perhaps the region was instead wrought with danger to small craft trying to go to warp?

2) The Klingons were said to be unlikely culprits for the space storm because Robau's ship was 75,000 kilometers from something (not from Klingons, probably, because being mere 75,000 km away would make them likely culprits!).

3) Why was Robau there in the first place? Was he vectored by Starfleet to study the phenomenon, or did he discover it and then report to Starfleet? Why go to this location rather than to Iowa where little Jimmy supposedly was due to be born?

All of these tie in some way to the question of what sort of a ship the Kelvin was. Would only exceptionally big ships find themselves in the jam described here? Would only exceptionally humdrum single-nacellers find themselves so badly outclassed?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Josh Swartz]

I don't believe the Kelvin incident was the breaking point from the Prime Universe, I believe the Xindi attack on Earth in Star Trek Enterprise was. Daniels shows Archer that in the PU timeline the Xindi become a member of the Federation and they help fight the Sphere Builders in the 26th century and he states that this attack was never supposed to happen. With seven million people dead in this new timeline that weren't dead in the PU timeline it would stand to reason that at least a few of the people responsible for design decisions in the PU we either dead, never born, or their lives were fundamentally changed by the resulting events that they ended up in different professions entirely and with Admiral Archer from this new timeline changed by his experience with the Xindi, lead Starfleet on a coarse of designing larger, more heavily armed vessels. My theory is that a crew on a ship like the USS Relatively was unable to prevent the Xindi attack and may have even used the Narada incident to manipulate events to ensure the Kirk and the rest of the crew that were supposed to be on the Enterprise actually were. No one found it rather convenient that the original helmsman came down with a mysterious illness and had to be replaced by Sulu? Kirk just happened to find Scotty at that random outpost? Uhuru happened to be in a relationship with the guy that could assign her to the Enterprise and that guy just happened to be Spock? Star Trek 2009 wasn't showing the events that fractured the timeline, they were showing the events that corrected the timeline as best as it possibly could.

 

[publiusr]

I think this changed the Prime timeline:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future's_End

NX-01 comes to be--but we still have Kirk and the Prime (remastered)

Nero's ship does implode into a type of black hole--maybe that finds its way back to Archer's timeline--and ushers in the Kelvin timeline. The Romulan spy ship looks like Narada to me.

Spock's Jellyfish was the moat advance prime ship we have seen--prior to PICARD

If nothing else--blame it on Braxton again.

 

[Phoenix219]

I think that First Contact created ENT, which led to a future with Time Cops, and whose 23rd Century looks like DSC. The Defiant entered the Mirror Universe before FC rewrote the timeline, so it still looked like a TOS ship. I think that the Kelvinverse is either an entirely separate universe that was never affected by Spock and Nero's time traveling, but rather through their dimensional traveling, or a tangent that has a future installment that restores the Prime, which is now an ENT altered aesthetic that looks like (the very beginning of 09, and the whole of DSC).

 

[Dukhat]

I think that First Contact created ENT

Possibly, but the MU episode seems to imply that had Picard and co. and the Borg not changed the timeline, that the original timeline would have had Cochrane shoot the Vulcan and the rest of the humans loot the Vulcan ship. So the Borg going back through time and Picard's intervention was what was always supposed to happen.

which led to a future with Time Cops

I'm not sure what the 29th century Time Cops have to do with ENT.

and whose 23rd Century looks like DSC.

No, the 23rd century looks like DSC because CBS didn't care about continuity between shows.

The Defiant entered the Mirror Universe before FC rewrote the timeline, so it still looked like a TOS ship.

We don't know what the Defiant looked like in DSC. We only see a crude wire-framed computer image of the ship after it was upgraded. For all we know, the Defiant looked the same as the DSC Enterprise.

I think that the Kelvinverse is either an entirely separate universe that was never affected by Spock and Nero's time traveling, but rather through their dimensional traveling, or a tangent that has a future installment that restores the Prime, which is now an ENT altered aesthetic that looks like (the very beginning of 09, and the whole of DSC).

That would defeat the entire point of the films.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

I’ll never understand this concern fans have over fictional space ships in one fictional universe being generally bigger than ships in another universe.

Is it an objection over Abrams preferring to size up the Enterprise? Why the objection, is it just because it’s “too different” from the TOS size? What difference does it make for fans?

 

[F. King Daniel]

I’ll never understand this concern fans have over fictional space ships in one fictional universe being generally bigger than ships in another universe.

Is it an objection over Abrams preferring to size up the Enterprise? Why the objection, is it just because it’s “too different” from the TOS size? What difference does it make for fans?

Personally, I find it more bothersome when what is supposed to be the exact same ship in the same continuity is redesigned and upscaled, and given abilities (like launching 100+ shuttles and drones) that would change the landscape of several TOS episodes. That's Discovery's USS Enterprise.

Well... if I still cared about such things. One's another universe and the other essentially a reboot/overwrite of Trek's 23rd century Prime Universe.

 

[pst]

Is it an objection over Abrams preferring to size up the Enterprise? Why the objection, is it just because it’s “too different” from the TOS size? What difference does it make for fans?

people resist change. how many people have said "i still prefer the original" in response to the discoveryverse enterprise? how many more people have said it about the kelvin timeline enterprise? how many people said it about the enterprise-d in the 80s?

 

[Dukhat]

people resist change. how many people have said "i still prefer the original" in response to the discoveryverse enterprise?

Me.

how many more people have said it about the kelvin timeline enterprise?

I wouldn’t have preferred the original in that case, but I would have preferred a better design than what we got.

how many people said it about the enterprise-d in the 80s?

Not me. I love the Enterprise-D and always have.

 

[Captain Crow]

people resist change. how many people have said "i still prefer the original" in response to the discoveryverse enterprise?

Having a preference =/= resistance to change.

I personally prefer the production version* of the STTOS Enterprise over the STD one simply because I like that design over the newer one. The STD one looks like someone sat on it and I don't much care for the potato peeler warp pylons.

how many more people have said it about the kelvin timeline enterprise?

I don't care to much for the Kelvin Enterprise because the neck sits to far back on the secondary hull and the warp engines are to close together. Kind of liked their version Enterprise-A for the brief moment a we got to see it at the end of STB though. Shame that's probably the only time we'll ever see it.

how many people said it about the enterprise-d in the 80s?

Problem with the Enterprise-D is it only looked good from a couple of angles. The old TV and Movie 1701, on the other hand, looked good from just about every angle.



*that's the third version of the thing so your "people who like older versions of things resist change" argument doesn't hold up.

 

[fireproof78]

I’ll never understand this concern fans have over fictional space ships in one fictional universe being generally bigger than ships in another universe.

Is it an objection over Abrams preferring to size up the Enterprise? Why the objection, is it just because it’s “too different” from the TOS size? What difference does it make for fans?

Because...continuity or something.

Never mind the different universes or things like that...

 

[pst]

*that's the third version of the thing so your "people who like older versions of things resist change" argument doesn't hold up

this is not a critique of people who prefer older versions of things, just an inelegant observation that a lot of people’s knee jerk reaction is to dislike a newer thing because it’s not what they’re used to. i’m not saying there aren’t subjective but valid arguments to be made about the merits of each design, there are. but you have to admit, a lot of fans reacted badly to the 2009 rescale and redesign (among other changes) simply because it was very different from what they grew up with.

 

[Dukhat]

this is not a critique of people who prefer older versions of things, just an inelegant observation that a lot of people’s knee jerk reaction is to dislike a newer thing because it’s not what they’re used to. i’m not saying there aren’t subjective but valid arguments to be made

9 about the merits of each design, there are. but you have to admit, a lot of fans reacted badly to the 2009 rescale and redesign (among other changes) simply because it was very different from what they grew up with.

Here were my problems with the Abramsprise:

1. When the photo was first shown of the ship in full, the angle was so unflattering that I originally thought it was a fake CGI model made by someone as a joke, it looked so bad.

2. Then, because I wasn’t aware at the time that ST’09 took place in an alternate universe, I was annoyed because they seemingly redesigned the ship for no apparent reason.

3. Then, when I found out that this Enterprise was not meant to be the original TOS Enterprise, I was still annoyed because the design was so crappy. They had a chance to make a completely new design for this new Enterprise, and that was what they came up with?

4. And why do I hate the Abramsprise design? Because it looks like three people designed it without consulting each other. One guy made the saucer (which is just an unapologetic redesign of the TMP Enterprise’s saucer), one guy made the secondary hull, and one guy made the nacelles and pylons. The end result looks like a hodgepodge of design choices that don’t quite go together as a whole. This becomes even more annoying when one realizes that none of that was true and the Abramsprise was designed by just one guy.

5. And let’s not forget the completely unnecessary upscaling to ridiculous proportions.