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Was there anyone in DS9 with the rank of Commodore?

Don't think DS9 had any "fleet captains", but there's tons of speculation about what Sloan's (fake) rank insignia meant in "Inquisition."

IMO, the "fake" rank insignia is a catchall for various "billets" exercising delegated strategic authority - Sloan was a "Deputy Director" (most likely a Regional deputy, rather than the punative DD for SIA at Headquarters), Sisko could have worn it as COSS-SOL and as Ross' aide, semi-permenantly assigned "commodores"/"task force commanders" not eligable for flag rank could also use it.

By the way, what does a Fleet Captain really do?

I thought (I have no real Naval experience, so, please correct these ideas) Fleet Captains were the Admiral's Aid/Advisor, where the Admiral is over a fleet and the Fleet Captain relays the Admiral's orders to the other ship Captains. He may also be responsible for maintaining day-to-day coordination within/between ships in the fleet. If the Admiral has a flagship, the flagship might have its own regular captain, or does/can the Fleet Captain also have that job, too. Am I over the target?

Whether the flagship has one or two captains typically depends on the rank of the flag officer onboard - commodores did both jobs or had a single "dual-hatted" Captain, vice admirals and full admirals tended to have two (the "flag" (or ship's) Captain and the Fleet Captain, rear admirals depended on mission and availability.

The lack of mention of Commodores in Trek isn't particularly indicative of anything - after all, we get only a single mention of a Vice Admiral in all of TNG, DS9 and VOY together IIRC ("Inter Arma"), and we don't even get to see this guy's pips, but it doesn't follow we should think Starfleet dropped that rank previously and afterwards and only activated it for that episode or season or whatever... And of course obscure background graphics kept referring to Commodores in the TNG era, off focus and all that.

Where we get a bit of confusion is the first year of TNG where somebody with no pips can be an Admiral just as well as somebody with two pips. It's difficult to postulate a flag rank lower than the pipless one! But the no-pip rank might still be Commodore, only now warranting a more egalitarian form of address.

Timo Saloniemi

Actually, Vice Admiral is the only rank that we do know the corresponding pips for, as both Necheyev and Ross (three pipers) are identified in dialogue as Vice Admirals (though they could also be Fleet Admirals ("admirals in command of a fleet) as three pips has also been used for this rank, which logically should have been either four or five pip).

Likewise, I think it's best to assume that Quinn's insignia should actually be a higher one (especially as he was scouting Picard for the two-pip post of Head of Starfleet Academy. However Jameson may have been (semi)-retired or at least exercising a "general portfolio" so warranted "Admiral" merely as courtesy title for a flag officer.

Were there ever any one-pip admirals? That’d be an interesting insignia to see.

I don’t think I’m pro-commodore in the TNG era, but “rear admiral, upper half / lower half” sounds really clunky, lazy, and a little insulting/obsequious. (I don’t care that it’s based on the US military.)

The U.S. Navy didn't start that "upper half, lower half" crap until the 1980s, if I remember right.

No single "boxed pip" insignia has ever been seen in the 24th Century, so we can only reasonably assume that it would be some form of Admiral (given evidence from TMP and TNG s1-2), personally I'm not in favour of RADML as a rank, but would prefer something like Branch Admiral (mentioned a couple of times in licensed media) and/or something like Group Admiral (ala the RW flotilla admiral used by several non-Anglophone navies), possibly depending on billet (staff officers would be Branch Admirals, Rear Admirals and Vice Admirals, fleet commanders would Group Admirals, Fleet (Rear) Admirals and Fleet (Vice) Admirals.
 
By the way, what does a Fleet Captain really do?

I thought (I have no real Naval experience, so, please correct these ideas) Fleet Captains were the Admiral's Aid/Advisor, where the Admiral is over a fleet and the Fleet Captain relays the Admiral's orders to the other ship Captains. He may also be responsible for maintaining day-to-day coordination within/between ships in the fleet. If the Admiral has a flagship, the flagship might have its own regular captain, or does/can the Fleet Captain also have that job, too. Am I over the target?

The FASA Trekverse, for TNG, had the interesting idea that fleet captain was a flag rank between commodore and the lowest admiral rank, with it being a rather rare post. Earlier FASA books had inferred that it was not a distinct rank in the TOS era but more a formal title for a senior captain. A TNG fleet captain was responsible for overseeing the development of new advanced classes, and FASA said there were only three as of TNG S1 (assigned to the Galaxy, Excelsior and Alaska programs). As this was long before the boxed admiral pips were added, FASA assumed that a commodore would have five silver pips (one more than captain, as all main ranks were assumed to be silver) while fleet captain had five gold pips. Amusingly, the same rank chart interpreted O'Brien's single hollow pip from the pilot as being an ensign J.G. insignia. :D
 
though they could also be Fleet Admirals ("admirals in command of a fleet
I always thought of that could be the answer why picard called people with vice admiral insignia fleet admiral. Since picard isn’t a military guy (nor is starfleet fully military) it would be plausible that he would think like that. And since there are probably few fleet admirals in starfleet (maybe only one) it is not like he would see them a lot.
 
Interestly, the closest visual match to the four boxed gold pips (the most senior rank explicitly seen on screen), would be the Admiral of the Navy rank (six-star) awarded to ADM Dewey in 1903, perhaps "Admiral of Starfleet", which logically would put the next rank down, "Vice Admiral of Starfleet" (?), as equivalent of a terrestrial Fleet Admiral or General of the Army/Field Marshal (5-star) and the rank below that, "Rear Admiral of Starfleet" (?), as the equivalent of a terrestrial Admiral or General (4-star) and the rarely if ever seen "one boxed pip" as the equivalent of a terrestriel Vice Admiral or Lieutenant General.
 
Interestly, the closest visual match to the four boxed gold pips (the most senior rank explicitly seen on screen), would be the Admiral of the Navy rank (six-star) awarded to ADM Dewey in 1903, perhaps "Admiral of Starfleet", which logically would put the next rank down, "Vice Admiral of Starfleet" (?), as equivalent of a terrestrial Fleet Admiral or General of the Army/Field Marshal (5-star) and the rank below that, "Rear Admiral of Starfleet" (?), as the equivalent of a terrestrial Admiral or General (4-star) and the rarely if ever seen "one boxed pip" as the equivalent of a terrestriel Vice Admiral or Lieutenant General.
Really? I guess so but to me it visually matches the 4 star rank of admiral since I believe some where they called the 3 pip rank vice admiral. Also I know it’s not canon but in the books that take place in 24th century after the ds9 they use a five pip (which would be 5 Star fleet admiral) insignia for fleet admiral. And 2 pip would be rear admiral then.
 
Actually, Vice Admiral is the only rank that we do know the corresponding pips for, as both Necheyev and Ross (three pipers) are identified in dialogue as Vice Admirals

Oh, wow. I completely missed the respective references in "Chain of Command pt I" and "Dogs of War" until now. Should have used the search functionality at the Chakoteya site, rather than relying on a manual search...

So yes, Vice Admiral is three pips, and never is anything else. Admiral of course is occasionally four pips, right as it should (Riker in "AGT", say), but that's less definite. And Rear Admiral is only ever used twice, first in reference to the unseen Satie in the "AGT" flashback (she might well have been a two-pipper at the time), then in reference to the four-pipper Bennett in "Dr Bashir, I Presume" (a clear mistake, rationalization pending). And Commodore and pips just plain don't go together in Trek, as previously discussed.

Likewise, I think it's best to assume that Quinn's insignia should actually be a higher one (especially as he was scouting Picard for the two-pip post of Head of Starfleet Academy. However Jameson may have been (semi)-retired or at least exercising a "general portfolio" so warranted "Admiral" merely as courtesy title for a flag officer.

I don't think Quinn needs to have any formal authority to offer the position. He's a supposed close associate ("an old friend") of Picard's - that's his true mandate in "Coming of Age". And in any case, it's just a smokescreen for his real mission of digging up dirt on the heroes, that is, his secret mission of finding out whether Picard can be his ally in the great counter-conspiracy.

As for the controversial "Fleet Admiral" and "Fleet Captain" designations, neither of those is straightforwardly associated with insignia, and indeed we can argue that neither of them is a rank.

Fleet Admiral is explicitly something applying to three-pippers. On the other hand, three-pippers are in charge of specific Fleets in DS9, along with some two-pippers. So assuming that Fleet Admiral is a title for a flag officer in charge of a Fleet seems like the safe way to go. In contrast, we have only ever seen one five-pipper, Admiral Marcus in ST:ID, and his title or the formal name of his rank never was Fleet Admiral. We can easily postulate that the title for five pips exists, is distinct from the plain Admiral of four pips, and may be something like Grand Admiral for all we care.

Fleet Captain in turn has only ever applied to a single person in the history of Star Trek: Chris Pike. We have seen him wearing three distinct types of uniform now: the one with single braid or | in "The Cage", where his title was Captain and his exact rank unknown, the one with the triple braid or |:| in DSC S2 where his title was Captain and his exact rank supposedly the same as Kirk's in those formal occasions where the latter captain was officially identified as Captain by rank - and now the one with five shoulder pips in the time crystal vision where he meets his crippled self. Five pips (or four braid) are unhead of elsewhere in Star Trek, if we discount the idea that Pike would share rank with Alexander Marcus in that vision. So perhaps Fleet Captain is an actual rank, an "O-7" with one more pip and one more braid than mere regular "O-6" equivalent Captain.

The out-of-this-world five-pip uniform could of course be considered pure fantasy: either Pike really dreams of being the Boss of Bosses at top flag rank, or then he is wearing an utterly fictional garb for some reason. But if we discount those, we can also discount the idea that Fleet Captain would be a flag rank: it's a continuation of line ranks instead, supposedly the highest of them all. It doesn't step on the toes of this Commodore issue, then.

This of course is subject to additional speculation. When exactly did Pike get that particular promotion? It was before he handed over the Enterprise to Kirk. Until now, we have been able to think that it was before DSC already, and that three braid or |:| is the insignia going with it, and that the "Fleet" part there is mere additional clarification that this is a Starfleet captain of Captain rank rather than some silly civilian skipper. The dream uniform may be taken to change that. Or then not.

Timo Saloniemi
 
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