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Thoughts on an alternate Nemesis

Lord Hobbers

Lieutenant Commander
Red Shirt
Hello, everyone. I am new to these forums and this is my first post.

With the Picard series upcoming, I have been thinking recently about Star Trek Nemesis.

As a film, I rather enjoyed it, although there were certain aspects that I didn’t like, and it certainly would have been a better film if they had left in all the deleted scenes that were included on the DVD – especially the one in which Picard and Data share a bottle of wine in Picard’s quarters.

Crucially, I also think that a story dealing with Romulus, that needed a personal link to the Enterprise, missed an opportunity by not using the character of Sela (played by Denise Crosby). I think she should have been the main villain of the piece. She could have staged a coup and was trying to destroy Earth with a new warship etc, and it would have been a nice link back to the series, as the Borg had been in First Contact

However, that is not what this post is about. Forgive me, but I shall talk you through my internal ramblings. It all started when I was thinking about Riker getting his own ship, and I though back to the episode “Best of Both Worlds” when he was previously offered his own command, which he turned down. Admiral Hanson at the time said that if he kept turning down commands then Starfleet would stop offering them to him, and may explain why it took him another decade to actually get his own vessel in Nemesis.

My thoughts then turned to the Dominion War. In wartime, promotion always tends to come more quickly due to officers being killed off and the need to replace them. So why wasn’t Riker given his own ship during the Dominion War? There was a Next Gen film set in the Dominion War (Insurrection), but Riker was not offered a ship, and indeed it barely dealt with the war at all.

So, that got me thinking, what if we merged Insurrection and Nemesis into one film – set during the Dominion War, with a personal link to Picard (hold that thought), and in which Riker leaves the Enterprise to take command of the Titan. Huzzah! That would be an awesome film with enough action and personal dilemmas to elicit a classic.

But, if it was in the Dominion War, then the Romulans would not be the bad guys. It would be the Dominion.

So what would the personal link for Picard be?

Well, let us recall from Deep Space Nine that the Dominion’s ally in the Alpha Quadrant were the Cardassians. So they could be the big bad of the movie. And which Cardassian specifically?

How about Gul Madred? The Cardassian commandant played with aplomb by David Warner in the two-part episode “Chain of Command”.

Brilliant. Madred sadistically tortured Picard on Celtris III (“There are four lights!”) so we have the personal backstory and hostility already between these two characters, which would give Picard the emotional dilemma that would be needed, and would have provided a nice nostalgic link back to the series we loved rather than Shinzon who we’d never seen before.

Now, as I said, I loved both Insurrection and Nemesis, but it is intriguing to think how these two, not-so-successful movies could have been combined to make a spectacle of a war film that would have seen the Next Gen crew go out with a bang rather than a whimper. In fact, had it been successful, there may even have been more films in the series. Sadly, we’ll never know.

The only problem with my idea, however; if the film was set during the Dominion War, then in that timeframe Voyager was still lost in the Alpha Quadrant, meaning we couldn’t have the cameo from Admiral Janeway, which was all time favourite part of Nemesis!

What are your thoughts on my random Star Trek musings?
 
Doing that would either alienate the casual audience, or waste too much time on the back story and building up what Picard had gone through--something that works on a two-parter, as they have time to draw it out, but as a segment in a film would have difficulty hitting the emotional weight it would need too.

Having the E-E separate from the war makes a lot of sense, as it's a powerful ship it can operate more successfully on its own, carrying out diplomatic and good will missions to build support for the Federations war effort.
 
Hello, everyone. I am new to these forums and this is my first post.

With the Picard series upcoming, I have been thinking recently about Star Trek Nemesis.

As a film, I rather enjoyed it, although there were certain aspects that I didn’t like, and it certainly would have been a better film if they had left in all the deleted scenes that were included on the DVD – especially the one in which Picard and Data share a bottle of wine in Picard’s quarters.

Crucially, I also think that a story dealing with Romulus, that needed a personal link to the Enterprise, missed an opportunity by not using the character of Sela (played by Denise Crosby). I think she should have been the main villain of the piece. She could have staged a coup and was trying to destroy Earth with a new warship etc, and it would have been a nice link back to the series, as the Borg had been in First Contact

However, that is not what this post is about. Forgive me, but I shall talk you through my internal ramblings. It all started when I was thinking about Riker getting his own ship, and I though back to the episode “Best of Both Worlds” when he was previously offered his own command, which he turned down. Admiral Hanson at the time said that if he kept turning down commands then Starfleet would stop offering them to him, and may explain why it took him another decade to actually get his own vessel in Nemesis.

My thoughts then turned to the Dominion War. In wartime, promotion always tends to come more quickly due to officers being killed off and the need to replace them. So why wasn’t Riker given his own ship during the Dominion War? There was a Next Gen film set in the Dominion War (Insurrection), but Riker was not offered a ship, and indeed it barely dealt with the war at all.

So, that got me thinking, what if we merged Insurrection and Nemesis into one film – set during the Dominion War, with a personal link to Picard (hold that thought), and in which Riker leaves the Enterprise to take command of the Titan. Huzzah! That would be an awesome film with enough action and personal dilemmas to elicit a classic.

But, if it was in the Dominion War, then the Romulans would not be the bad guys. It would be the Dominion.

So what would the personal link for Picard be?

Well, let us recall from Deep Space Nine that the Dominion’s ally in the Alpha Quadrant were the Cardassians. So they could be the big bad of the movie. And which Cardassian specifically?

How about Gul Madred? The Cardassian commandant played with aplomb by David Warner in the two-part episode “Chain of Command”.

Brilliant. Madred sadistically tortured Picard on Celtris III (“There are four lights!”) so we have the personal backstory and hostility already between these two characters, which would give Picard the emotional dilemma that would be needed, and would have provided a nice nostalgic link back to the series we loved rather than Shinzon who we’d never seen before.

Now, as I said, I loved both Insurrection and Nemesis, but it is intriguing to think how these two, not-so-successful movies could have been combined to make a spectacle of a war film that would have seen the Next Gen crew go out with a bang rather than a whimper. In fact, had it been successful, there may even have been more films in the series. Sadly, we’ll never know.

The only problem with my idea, however; if the film was set during the Dominion War, then in that timeframe Voyager was still lost in the Alpha Quadrant, meaning we couldn’t have the cameo from Admiral Janeway, which was all time favourite part of Nemesis!

What are your thoughts on my random Star Trek musings?

First of all, welcome to the TrekBBS!

As you said, I won't belabor the idea about Sela, but as others have mentioned, I don't think she would have made as good an adversary as some might think, at least not for a feature film.

Anyway, about your idea about Gul Madred and the Dominion: The point of the movie was its main characters (Picard & Data) confronting alternate versions of themselves and seeing how life would have been like for them had they not been given the opportunities they did, and in Picard's case it made for the creation of the main villain. The Romulans were just secondary; a plot device to move the story along. So replacing them with the Dominion wouldn't have made much difference because the movie wasn't about the Romulans. And Madred, or Sela, or Tomalak, or any other multitude of villains wouldn't have worked either because the movie also wasn't about Picard fighting some villain du jour. It was about him facing himself. Granted, the execution of that idea was crap, but the initial idea of Picard facing an alternate version of himself was a good one.
 
Much as I like Dina Meyer, having Sela instead of Donatra would have given the film a much heftier gut-punch all around. Sela hates Picard, and here she is having to help him defeat his evil twin that her government accidentally sicced on the universe. Meanwhile, Picard has to finally deal with the lingering questions regarding Sela's origins, and his potential role in them. While they'll never be fast friends, ultimately they have to craft a grudging respect for one another to not only defeat Shinzon, but to form any kind of armistice afterward as Romulus rebuilds.
 
I've been more of the mind that this film would have benefited if Shinzon wasn't a villain attempting to trick Picard, but actually genuine. Have his Viceroy be the mastermind behind the coup to bring Remus to power, with Romulans working against him with lots of intrigue. Then have Shinzon and Picard work together, resulting in Shinzon giving his life to save Picard and yadda yadda yadda. I just felt that Shinzon being a Young Evil Picard is less interesting him being a more brutal Picard raised through abuse and slavery with no privilege yet still holding on to what makes Picard such a good person.
 
i definitely think there's a missing TNG film that actually deals with the dominion war head-on rather than just referencing it and handwaving it away.

but as flawed as nemesis is, i'm glad it attempts to wrap up the romulan storyline that was an even more prominent thread throughout TNG than the borg storyline.
 
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