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The Last Jedi - Actually Widely Hated?

It is still a shame then that Luke is still that impulsive and hasn't learned a thing about emotions after 30 plus years. Even Mark Hamill wasn't very positive about the way Luke was written in the reboot.
But maybe they explain/fix it in EP9

But I am not saying that the reboots are bad movies, I just don't like them like the other Star Wars movies.
 
USS Firefly said:
It is still a shame then that Luke is still that impulsive and hasn't learned a thing about emotions after 30 plus years. Even Mark Hamill wasn't very positive about the way Luke was written in the reboot.
But maybe they explain/fix it in EP9

But I am not saying that the reboots are bad movies, I just don't like them like the other Star Wars movies.
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That’s a pretty fair way to look at it I think. I don’t agree but I can see where you’re coming from.
 
USS Firefly said:
It is still a shame then that Luke is still that impulsive and hasn't learned a thing about emotions after 30 plus years.
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He overreacted when seeing his nephew falling to the Dark Side.

My wife said something to me walking out of the theater after The Force Awakens: "it doesn't seem the Skywalker men can handle their Force." Seems pretty true to me when looking at the films overall.
 
BillJ said:
He overreacted when seeing his nephew falling to the Dark Side.

My wife said something to me walking out of the theater after The Force Awakens: "it doesn't seem the Skywalker men can handle their Force." Seems pretty true to me when looking at the films overall.
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Damn the writers for giving our heroes flaws!
 
Campe98 said:
Damn the writers for giving our heroes flaws!
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Luke's story was thrilling when I was 7-12, and it still hold a special place for me. But I simply grew up, as did a lot of Star Wars fans. The way the sequel trilogy wasn't the only way to handle the character, but I doubt the same paper thin characters from the original trilogy would satisfy modern audiences.

No matter how good, the current films were never going to recreate the magic that the original trilogy did. We're all older, maybe a little wiser, but you'll never again have that feeling of first love.
 
BillJ said:
No matter how good, the current films were never going to recreate the magic that the original trilogy did. We're all older, maybe a little wiser, but you'll never again have that feeling of first love.
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And it's completely unreasonable to expect them to do so.
 
BillJ said:
Luke's story was thrilling when I was 7-12, and it still hold a special place for me. But I simply grew up, as did a lot of Star Wars fans. The way the sequel trilogy wasn't the only way to handle the character, but I doubt the same paper thin characters from the original trilogy would satisfy modern audiences.

No matter how good, the current films were never going to recreate the magic that the original trilogy did. We're all older, maybe a little wiser, but you'll never again have that feeling of first love.
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Exactly!

I still love ANH. Its my favorite movie ever. It doesn't mean that there aren't better films out there. But its the one that brings me back to that feeling of awe at the movies. I think the closest movie that has been able to bring me back to that was seeing 2001 in IMAX last year. That was something else.
 
USS Firefly said:
Mark Hamill wasn't very positive about the way Luke was written in the reboot.
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Not only that, he CLEARLY FOUND IT NONSENSE until they told him to shut his mouth because we're milking and old franchise here.

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I mean, rewriting an old franchise to be nonsense because we don't know what we're doing is one thing, but let's not rewrite even what a person thinks.
Evil should have a limit.
 
It does kinda make you wonder what happened in the timeline where Ben/Kylo didn't wake up to see Luke standing over him.
 
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Sci-fi fan said:
Not only that, he CLEARLY FOUND IT NONSENSE.

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None of the comments you're trying to cite actually hold relevance because they represent an immediate knee-jerk reaction that was mitigated once Mark had an opportunity to have a candid and rational discussion with Rian and others about the story and character.

I also once again stress that George Lucas is the one responsible for coming up with Luke's story in the Sequel Trilogy, not Rian, JJ, or Lawrence Kasdan.
 
DigificWriter said:
knee-jerk reaction that was mitigated once Mark had an opportunity to have a candid and rational discussion with Rian
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Don't be naive. They told him to shut his mouth.
He was adamant about it and was talking about it non-stop, it wasn't just a passing thought:
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Besides, I didn't need Hamill to reach the same opinion: the character is absolute nonsense. Not only he was insisting Anakin can be redeemed, HE WAS REDEEMED, hence he has PROVEN his stance works fine so to not follow the same route when an even easier task was ahead (just a suspicion a young student could turn evil) was just nonsense.

As I said before it would only make remote sense if there was some kind of severe clinical psychological issue like brain damage or drugs or at least severe trauma but the movie never implied any of it.

I'm sure Abrams may rewrite the stupidity of Rian but that doesn't stop the fact Rian wrote nonsense.
 
Sci-fi fan said:
Besides, I didn't need Hamill to reach the same opinion: the character is absolute nonsense. Not only he was insisting Anakin can be redeemed, HE WAS REDEEMED, hence he has PROVEN his stance works fine so to not follow the same route when an even easier task was ahead (just a suspicion a young student could turn evil) was just nonsense.

As I said before it would only make remote sense if there was some kind of severe clinical psychological issue like brain damage or drugs or at least severe trauma but the movie never implied any of it.

I'm sure Abrams may rewrite the stupidity of Rian but that doesn't stop the fact Rian wrote nonsense.
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:brickwall:

Anakin was redeemed. Yes, no one is arguing that. But one thing you continue to forget is the moment right up to the point where he says he's a Jedi. Want to be reminded? Oh hell, you like YouTube videos... watch this one.

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Do you not see the moment of weakness before he comes to calm? He plays into the Emperor's hands, even for a moment, bringing all of his anger into play and cutting Vader's arm off. He shows his anger and almost, even just for a moment, gives into it fully. Then he realizes that he's wrong and stops, throwing his saber to the side.

The events we see in The Last Jedi are extremely similar. Luke has a history of acting out with his emotions. Hell, the entire male side of the Skywalker clan shows the same history. Giving into that emotion leads to the dark side. Seeing his nephew, who was tempted by Snoke, start to fall down that path, he almost gave into his emotions again, trying to stop it before it even started. It was arrogance. A trait that is more than common in his character.

Maybe he should have thrown the saber away then? Oh wait, people seem to hate it when he does that. :biggrin:
 
Campe98 said:
Maybe he should have thrown the saber away then? Oh wait, people seem to hate it when he does that.
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Context is what matters, not just the action.

Luke throwing his saber away in ROTJ was a renunciation of violence. Luke throwing his saber away in TLJ was a cheap gag that deliberately pissed on JJ's melodramatic setup at the end of Force Awakens. TLJ was one long 4th wall breaking troll against fans. The sequel trilogy is an incoherent mess because Rian chose to subvert everything Force Awakens setup, leaving JJ in a narrative dead-end.
 
mos6507 said:
Context is what matters, not just the action.

Luke throwing his saber away in ROTJ was a renunciation of violence. Luke throwing his saber away in TLJ was a cheap gag that deliberately pissed on JJ's melodramatic setup at the end of Force Awakens. TLJ was one long 4th wall breaking troll against fans.
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I'm a fan. I didn't feel trolled. Unless you're suggesting because I like TLJ that I'm not.
 
Sci-fi fan said:
I'm sure Abrams may rewrite the stupidity of Rian but that doesn't stop the fact Rian wrote nonsense.
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Since it apparently hasn't sunk in the first two times, I'm going to triple-emphasize it:
Luke's character arc in the Sequel Trilogy was conceived of and written by George Lucas... not JJ Abrams, Lawrence Kasdan, or Rian Johnson.
 
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