Why Did Roddenberry Hate the "dreadnought" from the Starfleet Technical Manual?

[Birdog]

I thought it was supposed to be the NCC-2701? For the life of me, I can't remember where that comes from?

2001 would make perfect sense on multiple levels. It would be the next ship off the line after Excelsior, it would be the next ship in the class assuming that numbers are assigned in blocks, it works in MJ's original system; 20th cruiser design, first production hull.

 

[Maurice]

Exactly. The whole reason why the Excelsior model was so much flatter than the Enterprise was because the latter ship was so difficult to film because of its size and shape. The original idea was to eventually segue from using the old Enterprise to the newer Excelsior. I don’t recall anything about the Ent-A being an Excelsior NCC-2001, just that the crew would eventually transition to the Excelsior (because at the time there was no Enterprise-A.)

Of course, none of that actually happened.

Well, it was some of the ILM guys who didn't like the Enterprise, not necessarily Bennett and Nimoy, who, of course, had final say, and If they hated the Enterprise it's funny that of all the study models presented to them they picked the one that looked the most like the Enterprise.

 

[Dukhat]

Well, it was some of the ILM guys who didn't like the Enterprise, not necessarily Bennett and Nimoy, who, of course, had final say, and If they hated the Enterprise it's funny that of all the study models presented to them they picked the one that looked the most like the Enterprise.

I didn’t mean to imply that I thought Bennett and Nimoy disliked the Enterprise filming model; I have no idea what they thought about it. My comment was aimed toward the VFX personnel. And as for the study model that Nimoy ultimately chose, its attributes that were similar to the Enterprise didn’t diminish the fact that the design (like the rest of the Excelsior study models) was a lot flatter, thereby making it easier to film.

 

[Maurice]

"Flatter" doesn't make it easier to film. Ken Ralston hated it because he found it difficult to light and didn't like the angles on it. You never hear those complaints from Trumbull's VFX crew, and they inherited the model from Abel and Associates.

 

[Dukhat]

"Flatter" doesn't make it easier to film.

I'll bow to your knowledge, but wouldn't a camera be better able to move around a flatter model than one with protuberances sticking out from the main body (i.e. the TOS/TMP Enterprise)?

 

[Maurice]

I'll bow to your knowledge, but wouldn't a camera be better able to move around a flatter model than one with protuberances sticking out from the main body (i.e. the TOS/TMP Enterprise)?

I don't even understand this line of thinking. Is a brick "easier" to shoot than a telephone pole? Look, I get if Ralston thought the ship didn't have any good angles on it (which is something I believe he said), ILM frankly had a "not invented here" attitude about the refit Enterprise I suspect is because it's not the way they would have designed or built it for the way they produced optical effects. I know they argued with Andy Probert about the Enterprise-D and some people there hated it, too.

 

[Dukhat]

I don't even understand this line of thinking.

There’s no need to shoot the messenger. I was only repeating something I heard.

 

[Maurice]

There’s no need to shoot the messenger. I was only repeating something I heard.

Did I name you? I was just saying I didn't grok the concept.

 

[Tomalak]

The complaints I've seen always simply relate to the enormous size of the clumbersome Enterprise model - I think it was 9 feet long and was an absolute pain to move around and mount.

In comparison the ILM The Excelsior was much easier to handle.

 

[Forbin]

One of the complaints was that the Enterprise model was VERY heavy, and difficult to move around. They needed a fork truck, rather than just a couple of guys, to move it.

 

[Maurice]

That's because the TMP model was built to the specifications required by the RA&A planned VFX, which meant it had a 5-point armatured arc-welded aluminum frame so that it could be cantilevered out on an arm from almost any direction and remain rock steady with no wobble or droop. The 7' size was because they knew they were going to have to get really close to it for shots in the drydock with humans around it, something ILM never did in the subsequent films. ILM would therefore build models to their specific needs and equipment. The TMP ship was built for different filming requirements.