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News Brent Spiner Returned for "Picard" (and you could do the CGI better in 15 minutes, we get it)

WarpFactorZ said:
It absolutely doesn't make the show about those people. It can still be 100% about Picard without having to have an overarching story about the complete last 15 year history of all ancillary characters. It's their connection to him that's relevant -- what they had then, and what they can do now.
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If that's how it is presented then it might work, though I highly doubt it. What it comes across as is fan service, the very thing that Discovery gets lambasted for. So, you'll forgive me if I find this call for more fan service highly suspicious. Sorry, I don't want a TNG reunion, and the framing device would have to be carefully crafted in order for it to work for me.

Focus on Picard and tell his story. That's all I want. If it happens to include some of his former crew, then I'll judge it then. As it stands, I do not think it will be handled well, and I find it highly frustrating that the thing that is decried in one show is celebrated in another.

YMMV.
 
They could just do Data as CGI. The "uncanny valley" effect would be perfectly fine, since he's an artificial life form.

Kor
 
I went twice, and was happy to see a little VOY connection. Did any of my examples hurt those stories? I think most fans found it nice to see those connections to the rest of the Trek universe. I also can't really imagine VOY without Barclay's help, as he established contact with the ship after years of trying. Neither him, nor Janeway in NEM, nor any of these other appearances made the stories any worse, and fans of those characters probably liked seeing them again and getting an update on their development.
 
I think some people in this thread just don't like TNG that much. And that's fine! But I'm still a bit taken aback by the absolutism on display about how any appearance by or reference to other TNG character will change the nature of or detract from the Picard show.

I know I've said it like 10 times in this thread but there's nothing wrong with the expectation that some or all of the other characters would play a role, large or small, in Picard's life. If they made a postscript show about the ensemble leads from other shows in the franchise I would say the same thing. A Kirk show that didn't mention or show anyone else (especially Spock and Bones) from their original show would be weird. Sisko without Jake or Dax. Janeway without Chakotay. All weird. It just makes no sense on a story level. Even if Picard underwent something so traumatic so as to result in him severing the relationships with all of those people it's still something we should see and explore.

On a more meta-level, maybe I'm in the minority, but sometimes well-executed references and fan service is good. This is a long-standing franchise with a lot of different iterations. As it pushes outward into new territory it's nice to get reminders of where we've been and what came before, almost as a reward for our time and investment. DSC gets a lot of mostly justified flack for forced references/nostalgia, but in a way it kind of proves my point: because of the mostly unwise decision to make it a prequel, it opened the show up to criticism from this perspective. After all, if these people were contemporaries of the TOS crew then it makes sense that there would be a desire or expectation to see some references to TOS. They took it too far in parts (although ironically season 2 with its radically increased references/nostalgia was better than the first) but it mostly worked.

If we want something totally new, then we need a show to be what TNG was to TOS: in the same universe, but later, doing different things in different places for the most part but still fitting into the universe—with attendant references and appearances—established by its predecessor(s). Maybe the next seasons of DSC will be this? We'll see.

We've never seen a direct sequel show about a lead character from an ensemble cast in the Trek franchise. I think we're lucky! We get a chance to see one of Trek's most iconic and well-loved characters again in a new context. We also (might) get the chance to see what his former crew is up to. That's good.

Finally, as ever, you don't have to watch it. There are going to be more and more iterations of Star Trek coming down the pike (ha!) so hopefully everyone can find something to grab on to.
 
NCC-73515 said:
I went twice, and was happy to see a little VOY connection. Did any of my examples hurt those stories? I think most fans found it nice to see those connections to the rest of the Trek universe. I also can't really imagine VOY without Barclay's help, as he established contact with the ship after years of trying. Neither him, nor Janeway in NEM, nor any of these other appearances made the stories any worse, and fans of those characters probably liked seeing them again and getting an update on their development.
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As an ENT fan I can tell you, TNG character inclusion doesn't always sweeten the deal.

Barclay and (to some extent) Troi in Voyager works as well as it does especially in Pathfinder, because of Zabel's script and Schultz's acting. I could go on and on about that episode, one of my favorite of the bunch and yes proof that characters from the past can do some good for a current show.

It always just depends on the character. I don't hate TNG, I like quite a bit of it actually. But there has always been, for me, this pallor of mediocrity about them as a whole. Oddly, they all seem better to me on their own and worse together, and that's perhaps why I don't like the idea of Spiner in this show. He already got shoehorned into Enterprise and it wasn't a perfect fit. If they waited at least a season before bringing on old baggage I'd prefer it. The show needs to stand on its own. I don't want Season 8 of TNG. I think we already got that and it was called Insurrection.
 
I guess when it comes down to it, I would prefer it if there were no appearances from TNG actors other than Stewart.

BUT, it would not be the end of the world for me if there were a few cameos. Not, ya know, all of them. If, for instance, Picard involved the character going rogue, it might make sense for Starfleet, which could be the villain in this piece, go to Riker (or someone) to find out why he might do what he's doing. I don't see that as being just a "Ooooh, Riker!" moment. I see it as something that makes sense for a character who we know who served with our lead for fifteen years and knows him well. It makes sense. But is it necessary? Probably not.
 
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NCC-73515 said:
I went twice, and was happy to see a little VOY connection. Did any of my examples hurt those stories? I think most fans found it nice to see those connections to the rest of the Trek universe. I also can't really imagine VOY without Barclay's help, as he established contact with the ship after years of trying. Neither him, nor Janeway in NEM, nor any of these other appearances made the stories any worse, and fans of those characters probably liked seeing them again and getting an update on their development.
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El Maestro said:
I know I've said it like 10 times in this thread but there's nothing wrong with the expectation that some or all of the other characters would play a role, large or small, in Picard's life. If they made a postscript show about the ensemble leads from other shows in the franchise I would say the same thing. A Kirk show that didn't mention or show anyone else (especially Spock and Bones) from their original show would be weird. Sisko without Jake or Dax. Janeway without Chakotay. All weird. It just makes no sense on a story level. Even if Picard underwent something so traumatic so as to result in him severing the relationships with all of those people it's still something we should see and explore.
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Here's the difference between what these posts advocate and what has been posted in this thread. A cameo, like Janeway's, was short, largely irrelevant to the story, and could have been done by anyone. But, the descriptions of possible appearances felt (to me) as more than just cameos. As others have mentioned, it felt like the potential for a '"These are the Voyages" type hijacking with bringing in multiple characters with little, if any, connection to the story.

This isn't my objecting to mentioning them or having brief cameos, maybe. This is my objection to setting up a full episode with all the TNG crew appearing, like the episode "All Good Things" where Picard has to get the gang back together again.

From a story level, as much as I love the idea of characters having these relationships, the idea is that Picard has grown and moved into a different phase of life. I can appreciate this idea since there are people in my life who were a big part for 10 years that I no longer have contact with. It's not a requirement of good storytelling.
 
El Maestro said:
I think some people in this thread just don't like TNG that much. And that's fine! But I'm still a bit taken aback by the absolutism on display about how any appearance by or reference to other TNG character will change the nature of or detract from the Picard show.
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TNG is my second favorite Trek. But its day is over, I feel the same way about TOS.
 
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Brent Spiner was excellent in the 3 episode Augment arc in ENT, imho. I thought Spiner/Soong stole the show. He outshined Bakula/Archer.

I was really impressed with Spiner's performance. There were not many moments, when Spiner was on screen, where he made me think of Data.

I haven't really given much thought as to whether I would like to see the Data character make an appearance in the Picard show.

If Spiner did make an appearance in the show, perhaps he could play a different character, not Data. That might be something to behold.
 
Last I heard, the only one of the TNG cast who's been approached about the Picard show is Frakes, because he's directing 2 episodes. None of the others have been invited aboard, last I heard.
 
The Old Mixer said:
That's setting a mighty low bar.
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I was a fan of Bakula from Quantum leap, and he is fine in that procedural show he is/was in, but his portrayal of Archer irked me. Not all the time, but enough to secure him the spot at the bottom of the worst mainline captain in Trek.

I do think the B4 Data thing could be interesting from an ethics point of view, but if anything happened there, it would have happened shortly after Nemesis. Also I suppose the very act of uploading Data's engrams altered B4 and should have been more carefully considered in the first place. Nemesis was awful in so many ways. It was like shitty fan fiction that missed the core of the show and characters.

I think a lot of fans felt like Nemesis was an insult. I did. I walked out feeling pissed off and embarrassed to have dragged a friend with me. This show is a chance to set things right. It is fine that it is a show about Picard and it is fine if it doesn't dwell on the past, but it's going to have some connection to some of the TNG crew unless there is yet another time travel event or they are all dead.

In the leaked footage, Picard appears to be asking some ensign for something at a Star Fleet facility. Of course word of him being there would likely get to at least one member of the E-D/E crew and that could spawn a holo call cameo. I am thinking that will be the Riker cameo and he can mention how Troi is doing and settle that one. Or based on the plot of the show, Riker could be the Starfleet Admiral Picard asks for help in resolving it all in the Series Finale or in a season finale. People have connections and check up on one another and sometimes go to them for help. Data's backup being uploaded to a positronic AI possibly as a framework could check that box without at all being unrealistic. Data was an asset and was constantly described as unique, utilizing a part of him makes sense from an engineering point of view. Whether it makes sense to see that in the Picard show, well it's not like we are talking about yet another Spock sibling.

I can't really think of a reason to bring in any other cast members that wouldn't seem contrived on the surface. Worf or any TNG era Klingon in the new makeup style would make sense just to put an end to the BS until some asshole does another augment-like story to explain why changing costumes in a 50+ year old franchise is caused by an in-universe thing.

The franchise, particularly the Kelvin films, has used photos to show history. Perhaps that is all we get, a cameo of the TNG crew via a photo Picard is looking at while pondering his next move. If they are all dead and they do this as part of a memorial, that would show some serious balls.
 
I think we can debate the particulars all we want, but the likelihood of at least one person from TNG making some sort of an appearance on the show is pretty high, IMO. No matter what happens, though, I'm not going to be dismissive until I see it.
 
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